Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 64

Thread: LightWave Update

  1. #31
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    sweden stockholm
    Posts
    15,121
    Quote Originally Posted by tischbein3 View Post
    I strongly believe that today its less about new features per se (especially if you have a multi-application environment) but more on how accessible these are:
    In short: how fast I can churn out the look I want in what time.

    Thats also why I'm a bit on a rant mode on this thing. Except for modeling I'm pretty happy with LW's development, but you need to communicate those features.
    I'm in no way a marketing expert, but the thing about 3d marketing I do know about is that it is all about getting enough high quality artwork affiliated with your product, so potential new users get interested in it.

    An AI controlled rig will not have an impact if no one knows how to use it / there is no marketable results. Look how well it went with
    endorphin.
    Endorphin...AH, liked that one, and may even have purchased it if it wasnīt so expensive...that was more about cost for the the softare and the fact it didnīt have stamina to stay on the market I think, at least from my standpoint on taking a decision for a purchase.

    I sort of agree to your first line, that still doesnīt validate the term and the situation about less innovative, you can argue if Lightwave should focus on Innovative New unseen stuff...or simply have a strong backbone with what it got, and what it does lesser good today ..in order to catch up etc.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Endorphin...AH, liked that one, and may even have purchased it if it wasnīt so expensive...that was more about cost for the the softare and the fact it didnīt have stamina to stay on the market I think, at least from my standpoint on taking a decision for a purchase.
    Yeah price was also factor, agree


    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    I sort of agree to your first line, that still doesnīt validate the term and the situation about less innovative, you can argue if Lightwave should focus on Innovative New unseen stuff...or simply have a strong backbone with what it got, and what it does lesser good today ..in order to catch up etc.
    Hey nothing wrong about beeing innovative, but I won't downplay the stuff wich was good in their previous releases. And sometimes having a hastle free workflow is much more appreciated in long term than a one shot killer feature.

    Also I do think the times where you could create something like hypervoxels and beeing market leader for a few years are gone.

  3. #33
    Lighthearted Kaptive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Derby, UK
    Posts
    749
    Quote Originally Posted by shrox View Post
    One main reason I don't post many questions or comments about Lightwave itself much is because of nonhelpful answers, like another software could do it better, use X-product instead, etc. Not that long ago there were Lightwave gurus offering help and support that no other forum could dream of, now many do little but bemoan it. You don't like Lightwave as much anymore, we get. Can't you still share your expertise in Lightwave with those that still do like it, people like me?

    Steve is our advocate, and we make tougher for him if we make him police the forum, rather than just run and moderate it. We are all obviously smart and talented people, I'd like to see more of that.

    Not sure if I should have posted this, and tarnish my sterling record, well since 2009 anyway...
    Shrox, it's actually a good post and on the money.

  4. #34
    Super Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Washington DC
    Posts
    3,627
    Quote Originally Posted by tischbein3 View Post
    I strongly believe that today its less about new features per se (especially if you have a multi-application environment) but more on how accessible these are:
    In short: how fast I can churn out the look I want in what time.

    Thats also why I'm a bit on a rant mode on this thing. Except for modeling I'm pretty happy with LW's development, but you need to communicate those features.
    I'm in no way a marketing expert, but the thing about 3d marketing I do know about is that it is all about getting enough high quality artwork affiliated with your product, so potential new users get interested in it.

    An AI controlled rig will not have an impact if no one knows how to use it / there is no marketable results. Look how well it went with
    endorphin.
    This is why a lot of 3d development is tide in with short/ movie production.
    During the 90s PIXAR used their short films as test beds that led into Toy Story.
    Also in the 90s Maya animation tools were polished during the development of Bingo the Clown.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h-O1R7iXqk

    The now forgotten movie "The Wild" was also used as a testbed to develop Houdini's Animation pipeline.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S5d-I-1jvc

    Hell the Blender foundation has been doing this recently with
    Big Buck Bunny and Cosmos Laundromat

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drLdsOnh7nI


    More recently concept artist Goro Fujita has been helping the development of VR animation tools, and he not a freaking animator.
    https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ry=goro+fujita




    I always have believe that if NT wants to improve LW it needs to get NON LW users in front of it. Plan vanilla Graphic Designers, Filmmakers and heck even stop motion/traditional animators, and see what they say about the user experience.
    Encourage them to do SHORTS using Lightwave and LISTEN TO THEM.

    Why not a shorts initiative that pays 5k using LW ONLY for a 1-2 minute short, donve ofer a week and have as part of the rules that NT get USER FEEDBACK. You could even do this as an invitation only event. there is certainly ENOUGH talent in Austin that you could pull this off.
    Last edited by robertoortiz; 05-06-2018 at 07:03 AM.
    This message does not reflect the opinions of the US Government, CG Networks or CGTALK.com. The opinions expressed on this posting are on my own volition.

  5. #35
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Oxford, UK
    Posts
    795
    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Endorphin...AH, liked that one, and may even have purchased it if it wasnīt so expensive...that was more about cost for the the softare and the fact it didnīt have stamina to stay on the market I think, at least from my standpoint on taking a decision for a purchase.
    To me, Endorphin was the internet equivalent of the unicorn - I used to see references to it and the odd tutorial listed for it, but never saw the software itself or knew what exactly it did. From a purely observational viewpoint, 2017 seemed to be see a few "reverse-extinctions" - Hexagon, Silo and LW itself. Even Curvy 3D ver 4.0 has now been announced. I have no idea why I find that so amusing - the pure mythos of it I guess.
    Last edited by TheLexx; 05-06-2018 at 07:19 AM.

  6. #36
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The stars at night are big and bright
    Posts
    19,397
    Quote Originally Posted by tischbein3 View Post
    Sure I do, and I stand to this, that these talks about the new version ultimatively harm the current version.
    You are free to do so. I could even have agreed with you that discussing future development can be misplaced (and in fact Andrew himself is absolutely opposed to doing so) if there was any basis in fact for to claim there is (or ever was) an "ad" for a "new version" in the first place. But instead, you have leapt to a conclusion, and in doing so attempting to makeyour point based on a fallacy.

    Fourteen minutes into an interview completely about our video line by representatives of a company that makes video products, and following two minutes of talking about how important video, and in particular, making it accessible to everyone is to NewTek, Tess (who I truly suspect had never heard of LightWave before) passed on a random chat room question asking about any LightWave announcements.

    To this, Andrew clearly said:
    1. "I have not made any LW announcements"
    2. Then he repeated that a second time.
    3. Then he said "I'm not going to say what we're working on"
    4. Then he allowed himself to go just a bit beyond this "I will say this ..." and went on to talk briefly in completely opaque but enthusiastic terms about some very cool stuff that "we are working on with LightWave"
    5. Then he repeats that there is no announcement.
    6. After this, he reminisced about LW's legacy a bit, showing his clear appreciation for its contributions to the industry.

    This is exactly what I mean about context, and baseless assumptions. A little discernment is helpful. Note the underlined word in item 4 above. There can be a very big difference in meaning between speaking about "what we are doing with LightWave" and saying "what we are doing to LightWave". Seriously, what are the chances that, if we wanted to "advertise" a new "version" of LW, it would be done in the above off-the-cuff manner, in a discussion about video, at a video trade show, where we not only didn't show LW, but we specifically said there was nothing to announce? In fact, where in that entire video does Andrew even use the word "version", save when discussing NDI?

    I have said that I don't know much about LW development ... about that, I only get the odd glimpse. But I do know very well what we (the video group) are doing with it, because it my team is intimately involved in the effort. And I know with absolute certainty that Andrew is very, very excited about it. So when I said earlier, 'pay attention to context', take that suggestion to heart. I don't drop hints lightly.

    There was nothing in this video to legitimately make anyone think we were 'advertising a new version of LW'; a discriminating listener taking context into account might even have refined his or her speculation accordingly. But of course, we are in the LW forum here, where careful consideration isn't even a concept, so rampant discord flows from the barest snippets of information like fake news spews from the internet.

    (The next thing that usually happens in a case like this is someone will pop up to say "This is all NewTek's fault because this kind of thing happens when you don't take positive steps to communicate. Nature abhors a vacuum. We want a roadmap! We want a roadmap!" Which, if you stop and think for just about a nanosecond, is completely the opposite of what tischbein is saying in the first place. His complaint is we should be talking about what we have, not what we might have in the future. And on this point, if perhaps nothing else, we agree. As has often been said, 'Damned if you do, damned if you don't.")
    --
    Regards, Steve
    Forum Moderator
    ("You've got to ask yourself one question ... 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, spammer?")

  7. #37
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    sweden stockholm
    Posts
    15,121
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLexx View Post
    To me, Endorphin was the internet equivalent of the unicorn - I used to see references to it and the odd tutorial listed for it, but never saw the software itself or knew what exactly it did.
    Personally..I found out about Endorphin through various vfx articles, googled it and went to the site and downloade demos, so I could see how it worked and performed, just wondering why you didnīt...if it by any chance wasnīt anything of interest then I understand.
    What I would have liked to though...is to try fbx imports to lightwave, and I think that was a limit in the demo which also put me off a bit, endorphin as standalone without any option to try it with other software is a bit of no use really.

  8. #38
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Oxford, UK
    Posts
    795
    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    ....just wondering why you didnīt...if it by any chance wasnīt anything of interest then I understand.
    Was intrigued from a distance - I think it was by NaturalMotion, but didn't seem to be on their website at the time. I get distracted easily, and am discovering in practice that I haven't explored LW anywhere near enough to go software hopping too much, but general reading is interesting.

  9. #39
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    sweden stockholm
    Posts
    15,121
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLexx View Post
    Was intrigued from a distance - I think it was by NaturalMotion, but didn't seem to be on their website at the time. I get distracted easily, and am discovering in practice that I haven't explored LW anywhere near enough to go software hopping too much, but general reading is interesting.
    I understand you, I was about to try fusion 360, and went to the site since I heard it was free..but then found out the demo was a limited trial, but in small text..you could check if you are eligable for a free working non limited non commercial edition, then I stopped there and didnīt bother if they wrestle in their versions like that, depending on personal preferences..we all may loose interest based on certain factors or ways the software is marketed, you do not want to get distracted and loose interest by vague information etc.

    I hope..and I think newtek does provide demos and information in a good way...making it easy to find download and try, currently I have had an issue with the modo trial..which demo period ended without I even had the chance to try , sent them 3 mails without them getting in touch...thus, I lost interest for now, eventually when their next update I might have the time and try it, at least now I am aware of that their demoversion starts ticking the date you download it..unlike Lightwave which starts when you install it.

    Edited..just checked my mail, and indeed got a better reply from foundry regarding modo trial, they confirm that the trial period starts ticking once I sign up for the trial, and they agree on my advice on making it more clear on their website, so they are about to contact their web team about that.

    I didnīt got a new trial link, just an advice to check if my trial was older than the newest release..which I currently do not know, or simply sign up for the inexpensive modie indie version, but that is not an option until I have tried the demo.

    Sorry for the slightly offtopic, it may serve as advice on how to not market Demo trials though
    Then out of the blue...why not some kind of indie version for lightwave? not sure if that may be applicable for Lightwave and if that would gain users? just thinking since modo, houdini etc does it.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by robertoortiz View Post
    I always have believe that if NT wants to improve LW it needs to get NON LW users in front of it. Plan vanilla Graphic Designers, Filmmakers and heck even stop motion/traditional animators, and see what they say about the user experience.
    Encourage them to do SHORTS using Lightwave and LISTEN TO THEM.
    Maybe some kind of approval system, where people can file in their project and get lw for free, as long as they give some kind of monthly feedback ?

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    (The next thing that usually happens in a case like this is someone will pop up to say "This is all NewTek's fault because this kind of thing happens when you don't take positive steps to communicate. Nature abhors a vacuum. We want a roadmap! We want a roadmap!" Which, if you stop and think for just about a nanosecond, is completely the opposite of what tischbein is saying in the first place. His complaint is we should be talking about what we have, not what we might have in the future. And on this point, if perhaps nothing else, we agree. As has often been said, 'Damned if you do, damned if you don't.")
    Steve, there is a difference showing of a new feature or a "roadmap" (I know this is not going to happen) of a coming version, and saying "we want to be as innovative as we once were" 4 month after the release of a product _he was asked about_. While a lot people in the forum still figuring out how to deal with the render engine of the current version.

    And _again_ its not about Andrews comment per se, but it falls in line with a tendency I saw in the last few years. Maybe my perception is wrong, could be. Maybe its a language problem - pretty much possible. But maybe I'm not the only one who got the same message from this. And maybe the intention of my posts is to point out that this "they figure it out by themself" strategy and "wait until you see the next version" marketing objective is not very good in attracting new users or communicating fundamental changes. And therefore a lot of the development effort is actually wasted, -especially on the innovative stuff. (IKBoost syndrome)

    Don't get me wrong, those who did the manual / video tuts do have my deepest respect, especially since some of those are not trained in doing so.
    Last edited by tischbein3; 05-06-2018 at 01:27 PM. Reason: clarification ?

  12. #42
    Registered User Wickedpup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Under the bed
    Posts
    401
    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    p.s., I am not saying that NewTek (or LW3DG) has not fallen significantly short at times, nor have I ever. But there are good reasons my car's windshield is a lot bigger than its rearview mirror. There are certainly reasons why one might reasonably question our collective judgement in the past, and no doubt there will be valid reasons to raise questions again in future. But it is bone-wearying tiresome and also counter-productive for a few people to leap on every little opportunity to make a mountain out of a molehill, dredging up every real or perceived misstep endlessly, and frankly often with completely wrong interpretations of what went down in the past.
    Not directed at you, SBowie but when I read what you wrote about the rearview mirror I could not avoid thinking about how some people in this place react to the word "Modo" after close to 20 years......
    Last edited by Wickedpup; 05-06-2018 at 01:19 PM.

  13. #43
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The stars at night are big and bright
    Posts
    19,397
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickedpup View Post
    Not directed at you, SBowie but when I read what you wrote about the windshield/rearview mirror I could not avoid start thinking about how some people in this place react to the word "Modo" after close to 20 years......
    Personally, it affects me not at all, apart from being as irrelevant to the purposes of this forum as Maya, C4D, etc. are.
    --
    Regards, Steve
    Forum Moderator
    ("You've got to ask yourself one question ... 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, spammer?")

  14. #44
    NewTek Social Media Chuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    6,399
    Quote Originally Posted by tischbein3 View Post
    Steve, there is a difference showing of a new feature or a "roadmap" (I know this is not going to happen) of a coming version, and saying "we want to be as innovative as we once were" 4 month after the release of a product _he was asked about_. While a lot people in the forum still figuring out how to deal with the render engine of the current version.

    And _again_ its not about Andrews comment per se, but it falls in line with a tendency I saw in the last few years. Maybe my perception is wrong, could be. Maybe its a language problem - pretty much possible. But maybe I'm not the only one who got the same message from this. And maybe the intention of my posts is to point out that this "they figure it out by themself" strategy and "wait until you see the next version" marketing objective is not very good in attracting new users or communicating fundamental changes. And therefore a lot of the development effort is actually wasted, -especially on the innovative stuff. (IKBoost syndrome)

    Don't get me wrong, those who did the manual / video tuts do have my deepest respect, especially since some of those are not trained in doing so.
    Yes, I think there is a language problem in this instance. You are not wrong that too many of our marketing communications about the product in past generations have made what's coming in LightWave the focus instead of what's in LightWave now. That in turn has in effect trained a lot of the community to also focus that way, and many of them wish us to persist with that focus, but we will not be doing that. Andrew's off-the-cuff reply to the LightWave question is neither part of that nor even remotely near being that type of behavior. And I would sincerely hope that with due consideration you might decide that the fellow at the top of the company setting its direction having some enthusiasm for the product you happen to be using is not a bad thing, nor is his publicly admitting that there is active development on the product. It's not an ad, it's not a formal marketing statement, it's just an informal answer to a impromptu question, and it's simply not correct to make anything more of it than that.

    NewTek marketing is focused now on selling LightWave as it is. NewTek will talk about versions of the product only as we release them, or are at least in final preparations to release. NewTek is working on developing more learning materials for the current version.
    Chuck Baker
    Senior Manager of Communications
    NewTek, Inc., Vizrt Group
    NewTek.com
    LightWave3D.com
    NewTek USA Facebook
    Twitter
    LinkedIn
    Software Developer's Dilemma: The better the new feature, the more feature requests it will generate. - C. Baker
    Please note that any statements regarding future product development are forward looking and subject to change without notice.

  15. #45
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    austria
    Posts
    2
    I have been away from LW for about 15 years, and looking over LW2018 I miss any basic maintenance, eg the cameras in real camera settings are at least 10 years old ( the newest ) or its not possible to apply a shortcut to the eg bullet dynamic window as its just not in the list or in the list for edit menu; to me as noob it seems very easy to renew some lists, its just have to be done.
    I am in LW since the first release for PC, 4 (or maybe 4.5) and what I remember LW wasnt treated like a unloved child what seems to be reality today.

    PS: havent seen last post before writing

    "..having some enthusiasm for the product .." exactly what I am missing^^
    Last edited by balkanman; 05-06-2018 at 03:34 PM.

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •