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Thread: Metamorphic for LightWave 2018 (AnimatedSculpt previously)

  1. #61

    That's Awesome!
    definitely get this if you are a 2018 owner! 
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  2. #62
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Great improvements, 51200 polygons, would like to see how it would handle around 2-3 millions though.
    Would it be possible to add metamorphic to a button in a menu, rather than having to add it as a modifier for starting up?
    openGL in lightwave could use matcaps and ambient occlusion when you use this for sculpting, and finally...dynotopic, adding polydetail when sculpting.

    All that may not be possible..but it looks nice so far.

    About using textures....one thing I find invaluable in another app that uses sculpting, that is the option ot use anchored as a stroke method, that means I can drag scale the size of the brush and ergo the displacement based on the texture in the brush, and while still holding the mouse button in rotate to any angle ..so scale up and down and rotate to place the displacement where I want.
    If you can get such stroke method in there, that would be great...
    1:32 in this clip you can see how that works, where I used pre-rendered lightwave procedurals but in the other software, so feel free to steal this way of implementing a brush mode from that software..it would be useful.



  3. #63
    Jay,
    Exceptional work! Great to see the development is strongly ongoing.

    In your last video, I have to admit to getting excited when I saw colors on the screen: thought you had managed to give us painting, too!
    Alas, it was visible selection sets. A boon to the workflow, for sure, but not what I was hoping for.

    Having said that, I'm sure it's the question many have or want to ask: how's painting coming along?

    Thank you for your efforts. Looking forward to more.
    Robert
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    i-7-4770k @3.5ghz, Titan, GTX 1660 Ti, et al

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    I think even blender would start to crawl at 10 millions of polys, 2-4 millions may be sufficient for many landscape sculpts.
    Quick test with a 1000x1000 groundplane / one Mio polys...

    Basically works but a bit slow. I wouldn't do landscapes with it, but maybe suitable for rocks etc.

    Attachment 141655

    Attachment 141656
    Last edited by Marander; 05-12-2018 at 01:07 PM.

  5. #65
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    Quick test with a 1000x1000 groundplane / one Mio polys...

    Basically works but a bit slow. I wouldn't do landscapes with it, but maybe suitable for rocks etc.

    Attachment 141655

    Attachment 141656
    Thanks...the actual image says nothing though, since we can not see the speed of how it deforms, and otherwise I understand fully that you can deform it with the brush
    Thanks for giving the heads up on the speed...and that is the thing for me, at 1000 000 millions of polys, it isnīt tolerable for it to be "a bit slow" at that level, at 4, 6 millions perhaps..but not for a sculpting tool comparing to what I am used too. (not talking zbrush here)

    Then again, itīs design was probably initially a tool to do animated sculpts..morphs etc...but I just wish this geo engine could kick but under the other circumstances as well.

  6. #66
    inSPIRAL jay3d's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Thanks...the actual image says nothing though, since we can not see the speed of how it deforms, and otherwise I understand fully that you can deform it with the brush
    Thanks for giving the heads up on the speed...and that is the thing for me, at 1000 000 millions of polys, it isnīt tolerable for it to be "a bit slow" at that level, at 4, 6 millions perhaps..but not for a sculpting tool comparing to what I am used too. (not talking zbrush here)

    Then again, itīs design was probably initially a tool to do animated sculpts..morphs etc...but I just wish this geo engine could kick but under the other circumstances as well.
    TBH the geo engine of 2018 is very well and fine, but the issue is with the OpenGL bottleneck. For example if you turn to points only view in the viewport you'll see how fast it handles even 2 mil polys like butter. there's one solution though I'm working on before OpenGL drawing issues gets fixed

  7. #67
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay3d View Post
    TBH the geo engine of 2018 is very well and fine, but the issue is with the OpenGL bottleneck. For example if you turn to points only view in the viewport you'll see how fast it handles even 2 mil polys like butter. there's one solution though I'm working on before OpenGL drawing issues gets fixed
    Thanks for clarifying that, and thanks for what you currently are working on.
    Sculpting in Lightwave is One of the features Ivé been lacking for a too long time, so it is welcomed to see things happening here...wether or not it will be a modeler or layout version finally, thatīs another matter.

    The drag texture option in lightwave was a nice little addition natively, but I sort of have abandoned working with it nowadays since I use the other tools for that which can handle a lot more polyīs, but the advantage of using lightwave all together would be all itīs vast library of procedural textures, I do not have that much of procedurals to choose from in my sculpting tool of choice currently, so workarounds was as I previously showed..to render out static images of favourite lightwave procedurals and use that as a brush in the other software, it would be limited in resolution and static with no option to change other than redoing new bitmap brushes.


  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Thanks...the actual image says nothing though, since we can not see the speed of how it deforms, and otherwise I understand fully that you can deform it with the brush
    Thanks for giving the heads up on the speed...and that is the thing for me, at 1000 000 millions of polys, it isnīt tolerable for it to be "a bit slow" at that level, at 4, 6 millions perhaps..but not for a sculpting tool comparing to what I am used too. (not talking zbrush here)

    Then again, itīs design was probably initially a tool to do animated sculpts..morphs etc...but I just wish this geo engine could kick but under the other circumstances as well.
    Yes I agree the image doesn't say much.

    The problem is that with high poly it is not only slow but also doesn't do smooth strokes. It actually never really does, even with fewer polys, the brush steps are visible. Smoothing is always required. Precise sculpting is not possible.

    I don't see it as a sculpt tool, it misses some functionality like sculpt layers / subdivisions for example and precision.

    I just compared with the built-in sculpting in Cinema, 1 Mio polys is absolutely no problem and all strokes are absolutely smooth and precise (and of course it has sculpt layers and more).

    I see Metamorphic more as a simple fun tool in LW, but it's still a young plugin that has potential.

    What I really like is the blue brush gizmo (as well as the other onscreen displays), it looks better than any other UI element in LW.

    Dissapointing is LW 2018s OpenGL performance, (for the fact it runs the Hydra engine / new geometry core). I have noticed before that it doesn't perform well with large objects while I can modify them smoothly in other 3D apps.

    Edit: Just tested 3rd Powers LWBrush in Modeler with a 1 Mio poly plane, it's so slow that it's unusable.
    Last edited by Marander; 05-13-2018 at 10:38 AM.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post

    I just compared with the built-in sculpting in Cinema, 1 Mio polys is absolutely no problem and all strokes are absolutely smooth and precise (and of course it has sculpt layers and more).

    I see Metamorphic more as a simple fun tool in LW, but it's still a young plugin that has potential.

    What I really like is the blue brush gizmo (as well as the other onscreen displays), it looks better than any other UI element in LW.

    Dissapointing is LW 2018s OpenGL performance, (for the fact it runs the Hydra engine / new geometry core). I have noticed before that it doesn't perform well with large objects while I can modify them smoothly in other 3D apps.
    we have to compare what is to be compared -> very high polys sculpting is better on other apps like c4d, but if you compare C4D to ZBrush...
    Metamorphic is unique for animated sculpting : for example, when you apply motion capture to a layered object ( characters + clothes with a same skeletton applied), the problem is, in most of case, the overlapping of the different surfaces, depending the bones-deformations : with metamorphic, you can correct this, in seconds, along the timeline : this feature, for example, is NOT possible with C4D, and i gather in most of major 3D apps... you can also do face animations, pose corrections, quickly fake clothes/poly-hair for wind/motion effects... the potential of this plugin is huge, and the last versions are working very nicely, with every week new features very usefull...
    Last edited by vipvip242; 05-13-2018 at 10:43 AM.
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  10. #70
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vipvip242 View Post
    we have to compare what is to be compared -> very high polys sculpting is better on other apps like c4d, but if you compare C4D to ZBrush...
    Metamorphic is unique for animated sculpting : for example, when you apply motion capture to a layered object ( characters + clothes with a same skeletton applied), the problem is, in most of case, the overlapping of the different surfaces, depending the bones-deformations : with metamorphic, you can correct this, in seconds, along the timeline : this feature, for example, is NOT possible with C4D, and i gather in most of major 3D apps... you can also do face animations, pose corrections, quickly fake clothes/poly-hair for wind/motion effects... the potential of this plugin is huge, and the last versions are working very nicely, with every week new features very usefull...
    You are absolutly right..for me it isnīt really about comparing towards high end sculpt, as zbrush or mudbox, I just need sculpting in a level on par with what I use now, and that is nowhere near zbrush, but it is much faster than what can
    be seen in this tool, not sure if it can evolve to be a complete package..maybe not, and I do not wish to derail from this great tool from Jay3d and itīs main purpose, which may not be my main purpose but it still indicated that it could be useful for me and eventually it may be..will see.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by vipvip242 View Post
    ...with metamorphic, you can correct this, in seconds, along the timeline : this feature, for example, is NOT possible with C4D, and i gather in most of major 3D apps...
    I don't want to start another 3D app comparison and true, Metamorphic is very nice for quick deforms along the timeline. However other apps like Cinema have corrective PoseMorphs and PLA (point level animation) as well as built-in cage deformers that can be animated.
    Last edited by Marander; 05-13-2018 at 10:59 AM.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    I don't want to start another 3D app comparison and true, Metamorphic is very nice for quick deforms along the timeline. However other apps like Cinema have corrective PoseMorphs and PLA (point level animation) as well as built-in cage deformers that can be animated.
    thanks, but not sure we are talking about the same thing... however, on my side, Metamorphic is much more than a simple 'fun' tool...
    Le Jardin Digital - Créations 3D / Design /Films - www.lejardindigital.fr

  13. #73
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    Putting plugin that's designed for a specific task up against an evolved generalized sculptural seems a bit, well, ridiculous.

    Be happy we have it AT ALL.
    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeric_synergy View Post
    Putting plugin that's designed for a specific task up against an evolved generalized sculptural seems a bit, well, ridiculous.

    Be happy we have it AT ALL.
    Yeah I'm satisfied with the plugin and if there wouldn't be restrictions on the LW side it would even be better. I would say the dev did the best he can, given the circumstances.
    Last edited by Marander; 05-13-2018 at 02:31 PM.

  15. #75
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeric_synergy View Post
    Putting plugin that's designed for a specific task up against an evolved generalized sculptural seems a bit, well, ridiculous.

    Be happy we have it AT ALL.
    Ridiculous where?
    Itīs not a boxing fight putting this tool up against evolve sculpt tool, itīs plain facts where I want and need a tool to be at, not necessary this tool can do that, ergo that is why I engaged in questions on how the performance is...and when finding out that it doesnīt perform in that level and coming to that conclusion, that may be interpretated as ridiculous?

    The case of that it doesnīt suit my needs ...that doesnīt mean that I do not recognize how
    great and important it may be for many others.

    Specificly I also mentioned I do not want to derail from the fact that it is a cool plugin.

    And finally..no I am not that overly happy at all that we have it, itīs not what I need..primary, I would be more happy with a sculpting tool with mentioned capabilities and performance prestanda, though I can be happy for others that it fitīs their bill.

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