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Thread: LightWave 3D Modeler Survey

  1. #166
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    No, in all fairness I don't think so; it's just that completely redundant picking away at something negative that practically everyone on the planet knows feels like a dig.
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  2. #167
    NewTek Social Media Chuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    Nothing straw man about it and not even intended as a putdown, just stating the reality of things. According to David I, he wasn't allowed to touch the SDK in his time at Newtek so not sure what major subsystems could have been put into Modeler by him. While I certainly appreciate any 'under the hood' work that goes into improving an application. none of the areas I cited have been improved and many other things have not changed since I started using Modeler back in 2000/2001 with LightWave 6.5 so from an outsiders point of view, besides the addition of a handful of tools over the years, its difficult to see that much effort has been put into improving Modeler or modeling in LightWave. I mean in all honesty, I would think there should be some kind of acknowledgement that Modeling has not been a priority for LW development since the original team left.
    As Steve noted, we've made acknowledgements that we haven't made the progress with Modeler that either we or many, many users would like. Yes, that's the case. We do however, reserve the right to make observations and comments from time to time about Modeler other than just that acknowledgement. Please understand that none of those should be taken to contradict that acknowledgement.

    Notwithstanding the basic case acknowledged above, the fact is that David was with us for a good many years, and did a great deal of work, virtually all of it under the hood in Modeler. There are a lot more things under the hood than the SDK. As well, several others of the team put work into Modeler on occasion, on large subsystems. I'm talking about information that was published as each feature release came out, not something that we kept secret.

    As an example, several aspects of the selection system and of mesh handling and operations were revised in ways that made them able to handle more capacity and faster, especially as the complexity of the object rose. Those were big piles of code and in several cases the subsystems were rewritten from the ground up, which also involved changing code across the board in order to allow for the subsystem being rewritten to be treated modularly. Lots of work. But yeah, also work that in many ways ends up being invisible for a lot of users, if not in fact most, even though it may be affecting a lot of what they do, especially when working at large scales.

    You're quoting David. Do you think he'd really agree that you should take anything he says to mean that you can justify an assertion that he didn't accomplish anything at all in Modeler during his tenure? Because as the guy who supervised about six years of that work as a project manager, I can tell you that assertion is just not correct.
    Last edited by Chuck; 04-09-2018 at 02:09 PM.
    Chuck Baker
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  3. #168
    I didn't say David didn't accomplish anything during his time with Newtek, now you're suggesting things I did not say at all. I like David a lot and talked much with him outside of LW development. I only said what he told to others about not being allowed to modify the Modeler SDK. But as far as what David did say, was that a lot of what he did was to merely maintain modeler, fix a lot of bugs as they were introduced by work going on elsewhere in the application. Beyond that, I'm not privy to what other work he did but you are right, a lot of that work certainly is invisible to the outside user.
    But its interesting to hear that selection and mesh handling were things that were improved because even today, that's a lot of where people say Modeler needs the most work in a lot of ways. i recall tumbling speed was improved in version 9 but editing speed was largely unchanged and that's the bigger of those two problems.
    Last edited by hrgiger; 04-09-2018 at 03:11 PM.

  4. #169
    Another must have feature that should be in modeler for us arch viz folk is a rectangle selection tool rather than being limited to lasso select which can make selecting some things very tedious.
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  5. #170
    Registered User droosan's Avatar
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    @Nicholas Jordan: FWIW, the 'Volume' mode is rectangular only, when used with the left-mouse button.

    You have to click the 'Volume' button (bottom menu row) to activate that mode; the spacebar isn't set to cycle to it, by default (I'm not sure why) .. which results in many users not being aware it exists.

  6. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by droosan View Post
    @Nicholas Jordan: FWIW, the 'Volume' mode is rectangular only, when used with the left-mouse button.

    You have to click the 'Volume' button (bottom menu row) to activate that mode; the spacebar isn't set to cycle to it, by default (I'm not sure why) .. which results in many users not being aware it exists.
    I have tried to use it but have always thought it was a bit strange the way it works since it doesn't show a polygon, points or edges selection when you use it. It's just plain weird and unintuitive compared to the way other 3D programs do a rectangular selection.
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  7. #172
    Registered User droosan's Avatar
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    Well, yeah ... with Volume selection you are literally selecting the volume itself; everything either within (or outside) the selection is affected by modify tools.

    I apologize that it seems I misunderstood; I realize now you are asking for a rectangular lasso, for directly selecting points or polygons.


    BTW, the number of points, polygons & edges both within & outside the volume selection is updated in realtime within the statistics panel .. but I concede your point that this is not intuitive, by comparison with other 3D applications (or even the more 'visual' representation of LW's poly/point/edge selection modes).
    Last edited by droosan; 04-09-2018 at 07:27 PM.

  8. #173
    NewTek Developer jameswillmott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas Jordan View Post
    Another must have feature that should be in modeler for us arch viz folk is a rectangle selection tool rather than being limited to lasso select which can make selecting some things very tedious.
    Can you forward a formal feature request for this so it goes into our feature database please? I think it's a good idea.
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  9. #174
    Super Member Snosrap's Avatar
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    To be fair there have been updates to each version of Modeler that were visible to the user - it's just that they are few and far between. If I look back here are some of my favorites:

    1. Subpatch interpolation of UV's in version 8. Previous team said it couldn't be done.
    2. Catmull-Clark subpatches in version 9. Also my least favorite improvement once I discovered you couldn't mirror a CC once edge weights were applied. Plus UV and other issues.
    3. ABF unwrap in version 11.
    4. Texture falloff and mouse wheel zoom in version 2015.
    5. Right-clicking while rotating, sizing and stretching to give more granular control. (Not on move? ) Layout view. And last but not least - Point removal at the end of open geometry when removing an edge!!!

    Those are the highlights.

  10. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by jameswillmott View Post
    Can you forward a formal feature request for this so it goes into our feature database please? I think it's a good idea.
    Done!
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  11. #176
    NewTek Social Media Chuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    I didn't say David didn't accomplish anything during his time with Newtek, now you're suggesting things I did not say at all.
    This is what I took as you expressing skepticism that David had done the major systems work I referred to:

    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    According to David I, he wasn't allowed to touch the SDK in his time at Newtek so not sure what major subsystems could have been put into Modeler by him.
    If I mistook your meaning, my apologies; and if so, it would help me to know what you were trying to express, I'm not having any luck sorting it out to another meaning.
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  12. #177
    areté adk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jameswillmott View Post
    Can you forward a formal feature request for this so it goes into our feature database please? I think it's a good idea.
    + 10 on that request and tool
    I was battling the volume select the other day constantly thinking ... why is this so un-intuitive and difficult.

  13. #178
    Registered User Over's Avatar
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    Did anyone asked for symmetry in all planes? Including custom symmetry where I can use an edge or poly as symmetry plane? Symmetry also working while merging points...

    Or even better, the possibility to delete and create layers in big meshes, 300+ layers without waiting until the other day? Action centers anyone?

    I did, just checking how many align with my needs.

  14. #179
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    Question

    If you have specific requests, submit them yourself. Then you know for sure.

    Why would you not??
    ++++++++++++++

    Quote Originally Posted by adk View Post
    I was battling the volume select the other day constantly thinking ... why is this so un-intuitive and difficult.
    Volume Select used to be my go-to tool, but when they took it off the mode cycle I pretty much stopped using it.

    What are your difficulties with using Volume Select??
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  15. #180
    areté adk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeric_synergy View Post
    If you have specific requests, submit them yourself. Then you know for sure.

    Why would you not??
    Yeah I have done that in the past and will do. Just need some spare time as I have quite a few bug reports and requests for various software at the moment and this (altho quite annoying) is not the highest priority atm.


    Quote Originally Posted by jeric_synergy View Post

    Volume Select used to be my go-to tool, but when they took it off the mode cycle I pretty much stopped using it.

    What are your difficulties with using Volume Select??
    As far as I can tell you need to

    1. drag out your selection
    2. go into the stats panel
    3. click on what you want to select in / out
    4. then toggle to poly / point mode in order to see your selection

    Which works totally differently to point / poly / edge selection. Why ?

    In my view it should simply be another global selection method (like the standard LW lasso) for points, polys, edges.
    ... and we should be able to draw out a rectangle, or ANY polygonal shape like other packages.

    Trying to select a thin strip of points / polys / edges in among other points/polys/edges in a mesh that's not aligned to an axis is a royal pita.

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