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Thread: LightWave 3D Modeler Survey

  1. #151
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    One thing I'd like to see is that vertices don't pass over each other while scaling down. For instance.. selecting a polygon, scaling it down.. only to have a corner flip around. Where the vertex would had been better off either clamped to the edge, or merged into the same occupying vertex. etc.. Or at the very least.. a toggle.. to limit it.

  2. #152
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    I think all the cases would be very hard to describe programmatically. Hell, if they could, that would have fixed Bevel years ago.
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  3. #153
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qexit View Post
    Presumably, the 'under the hood' improvements are what has allowed plugin writers like 3rd Powers to create such useful tools and allowed them to work so well within Modeler.
    Except that the SDKs in question really haven't changed that significantly (also why many of their tools work reasonably well in earlier versions). If the SDKs aren't changing that much, then QED, third-party devs aren't suddenly getting all sorts of new capabilities in Modeler due to "under-the-hood improvements", because the SDK's are generally _how_ third-party devs access Modeler capabilities. If there were lots of new, exposed capabilities, that'd necessarily require significant new SDK changes/augmentations, and in general that's not been the case.
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  4. #154
    Super Member samurai_x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qexit View Post
    Presumably, the 'under the hood' improvements are what has allowed plugin writers like 3rd Powers to create such useful tools and allowed them to work so well within Modeler.
    http://forums.newtek.com/showthread....=1#post1535694

    Quote Originally Posted by Myagi View Post
    IMHO the praising of the plugin developement side improvements is a bit exaggerated. At least the C SDK, I can't speak for the python API. A simple diff operation on the SDK header files between 2015 and 2018 gives you the raw truth of changes. The big bulk of changes are of course on nodes and rendering, since those systems got an overhaul, but otherwise changes are quite modest. Especially on the Modeler side.

    In fact surface related functionality even took a step backwards in some areas in 2018, breaking functionality to the point where I couldn't make one of my plugins work fully. I had to resort to undocumented code gymnastics to make it work somewhat.

    I found that quite disappointing. Here they introduced SDK changes (nodes/surfacing) that breaks 100% of existing plugins with node stuff. A huge opportunity to greatly improve that portion of the API, but instead it more or less ends up just like the old one with a few minor additions sprinkled in.


    TL ; DR: yes it's nice there are some improvements here and there, I guess more so in Layout, but it isn't the second coming of .. the SDK or anything. As the germans say, let's leave the church in the village

  5. #155
    Yeah not exactly sure who is making any sweeping changes to modeler or its SDK. David Ikea was the primary person they had for working on modeler and he has now been gone for a few years and even he wasnt allowed to modify the SDK according to him.

  6. #156
    Super Member Qexit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    Except that the SDKs in question really haven't changed that significantly (also why many of their tools work reasonably well in earlier versions). If the SDKs aren't changing that much, then QED, third-party devs aren't suddenly getting all sorts of new capabilities in Modeler due to "under-the-hood improvements", because the SDK's are generally _how_ third-party devs access Modeler capabilities. If there were lots of new, exposed capabilities, that'd necessarily require significant new SDK changes/augmentations, and in general that's not been the case.
    Fair enough
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  7. #157
    Michael Nicholson zapper1998's Avatar
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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetGerbil View Post
    Dear 3rd Powers, we would like to work with you by taking your ideas,removing your revenue stream from your plugins and putting you out of business. Thanks!! signed "Your friends at Newtek"

    Is that the general idea ?
    What? Did you just say: X did this.. so Y can't? Because that is the very definition of a monopoly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    Yeah not exactly sure who is making any sweeping changes to modeler or its SDK. David Ikea was the primary person they had for working on modeler and he has now been gone for a few years and even he wasnt allowed to modify the SDK according to him.
    Anyone tasked to do it. Why automatically assume only one person is capable? Why think that way? In any case.. it should be quite clear by now that LWG today.. isn't LWG a few years ago.
    Last edited by MichaelT; 04-07-2018 at 09:16 AM.

  9. #159
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    [QUOTE=MichaelT;1542896]What? Did you just say: X did this.. so Y can't? Because that is the very definition of a monopoly.]

    No.

  10. #160
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    [QUOTE=PetGerbil;1542898]
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelT View Post
    What? Did you just say: X did this.. so Y can't? Because that is the very definition of a monopoly.]

    No.
    That reply can be interpreted in so many ways.

  11. #161
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    Ok then.
    No. I did not say x did this so y can't.

    Both x and y are free to do whatever they please.

  12. #162
    NewTek Social Media Chuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    What is the standard for considering modeler still relevant today? Edges and Catmull Clark subdivision that were added in version 9 are still broken. Next to no game tools. Everything about Modeler is destructive. The only reason modeler is at all relevant after all this time is because of 3rd party tools like LWCAD and third Powers or a host of other third party scripts making up for what has not been done by NT in years.
    When are all these 'under the hood' improvement promises going to turn into actual benefits for the end user?
    I quoted the post I was replying to, and you ignored that and the entire rest of the context set by this thread in order to set up your straw man putdown. Snosrap cited 15 yrs, and I cited, past tense, work that no one has any excuse not to be aware of during that time frame, specifically the replacement of several major subsystems in Modeler by David Ikeda when he was onboard. Yes, they were a while back now, but without them a lot of things people are doing in Modeler today would be much slower or not even possible, even with third party assistance.

    And the standard for my use of the word "relevant" was simply that people still use it, as they've said so here and in plenty of other threads. Not an industry analysis and pronouncement, just a comment within the context of this thread.
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  13. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    I quoted the post I was replying to, and you ignored that and the entire rest of the context set by this thread in order to set up your straw man putdown. Snosrap cited 15 yrs, and I cited, past tense, work that no one has any excuse not to be aware of during that time frame, specifically the replacement of several major subsystems in Modeler by David Ikeda when he was onboard. Yes, they were a while back now, but without them a lot of things people are doing in Modeler today would be much slower or not even possible, even with third party assistance.
    Nothing straw man about it and not even intended as a putdown, just stating the reality of things. According to David I, he wasn't allowed to touch the SDK in his time at Newtek so not sure what major subsystems could have been put into Modeler by him. While I certainly appreciate any 'under the hood' work that goes into improving an application. none of the areas I cited have been improved and many other things have not changed since I started using Modeler back in 2000/2001 with LightWave 6.5 so from an outsiders point of view, besides the addition of a handful of tools over the years, its difficult to see that much effort has been put into improving Modeler or modeling in LightWave. I mean in all honesty, I would think there should be some kind of acknowledgement that Modeling has not been a priority for LW development since the original team left.

  14. #164
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    I mean in all honesty, I would think there should be some kind of acknowledgement that Modeling has not been a priority for LW development since the original team left.
    Setting aside the fact that the fact that Modeler hasn't been the primary focus seems to be abundantly evident, and I'm pretty sure different people (myself included) have acknowledged that in various posts along the way. If not, let me officially do so now, for those who have been comatose.

    Seriously, this can't possibly come as a surprise to anyone here unless they arrived in the last day or two. I really can't see the point of this particular tangent, save as some way to worm in a dig. You evidently think you have a point though, so by all means let's abandon all hope just when there finally is some serious interest shown.
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  15. #165
    Sigh. No point. If its not outright praise, it must be a dig, right?

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