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Thread: Really NewTek?

  1. #76
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    See... its unimaginably simple to see for anyone who actually bothers to check... Here a simple shape, made luminous, sat upon a rough reflective floor...

    Image 1... 32 camera samples, 1 reflection sample (high cam, low shading)... 2min 38

    Image 2... 1 camera sample, 32 reflection (low cam, high shade)... 49 secs

    But oh no... bad AA on the ball thing's edges... thus...

    Image 3... 4 camera samples (the minimum needed in this case for AA) and 8 reflection (to bring the total back up to 32 and thus make the quality identical to the previous)... 1min on the nose.

    That how you OPTIMSE rendertime...

    Camera samples AS LOW AS POSSIBLE for the purposes of AA in edges, MB, DOF... take out any remaining noise by increasing light and shading samples ONLY!!!

    Every time, no exceptions... EVER!!!

    Is it clear now??
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    Last edited by RebelHill; 03-01-2018 at 07:18 PM.
    LSR Surface and Rendering Tuts.
    RHiggit Rigging and Animation Tools
    RHA Animation Tutorials
    RHR Rigging Tutorials
    RHN Nodal Tutorials
    YT Vids Tuts for all

  2. #77
    Very logical and easy to understand as always. You are really a good teacher.

  3. #78
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    And like all good teachers Im sometimes driven to pounding the blackboard and hurling sticks of chalk at the class.

    How MANY Romans, Jenkins?!?!
    LSR Surface and Rendering Tuts.
    RHiggit Rigging and Animation Tools
    RHA Animation Tutorials
    RHR Rigging Tutorials
    RHN Nodal Tutorials
    YT Vids Tuts for all

  4. #79

  5. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by RebelHill View Post
    See... its unimaginably simple to see for anyone who actually bothers to check... Here a simple shape, made luminous, sat upon a rough reflective floor...

    Image 1... 32 camera samples, 1 reflection sample (high cam, low shading)... 2min 38

    Image 2... 1 camera sample, 32 reflection (low cam, high shade)... 49 secs

    But oh no... bad AA on the ball thing's edges... thus...

    Image 3... 4 camera samples (the minimum needed in this case for AA) and 8 reflection (to bring the total back up to 32 and thus make the quality identical to the previous)... 1min on the nose.

    That how you OPTIMSE rendertime...

    Camera samples AS LOW AS POSSIBLE for the purposes of AA in edges, MB, DOF... take out any remaining noise by increasing light and shading samples ONLY!!!

    Every time, no exceptions... EVER!!!

    Is it clear now??
    Very good summary....although i believed you the first time

    Would be nice for Newtek to link the samples to camera samples with a simple multiplier.....
    Tweak shading/reflec samples with 1 cam sample, then adjust cam samples with all others reducing by their multiplier

  6. #81
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    Well, there're a few ways you could remake the workflow... tbh, I find the current one fine enough. Afterall, when ur in the process of creating surfaces, and setting up scene lighting, etc, optimising and noise shouldnt be part of the battle, you should be focussing on the "artistic" aspects at hand. So just stick in something simple like 4 to 6 cam samples, leave everything else at 1... ull get a somewhat noisy render in a pretty quick time that lets u assess "look" easy enough.

    Once done with that, then refine... turn up ur cam to satisfy AA needs, turn up the others till ur happy with noise... boom, done, and you have the optimal possible rendertime for your desired final quality.
    LSR Surface and Rendering Tuts.
    RHiggit Rigging and Animation Tools
    RHA Animation Tutorials
    RHR Rigging Tutorials
    RHN Nodal Tutorials
    YT Vids Tuts for all

  7. #82
    Super Member Snosrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    I'm curious. I really don't like to seem rude, but were you involved with hiring any of the current staff? Did you review their resumes, know what contributions they might make, how their diverse skills would be employed? Did anyone see fit to ask you how they should be assigned to various projects while at NewTek? Or maybe how long they should work each day, when they should take their vacations ... anything? Can anyone here even name the entire current LW team and tell me what they do, or tell me who is heading up development?
    Well of course not. I'm merely asking the question if there is ample resources to keep LW moving forward. What Antti and Mark pulled off is really great IMO and I would hate to see things stagnate because somebody has to come in and figure out what somebody else did before things can move ahead.

    Also to a certain extent we artists think of the coders as heroes as they are creating software that we get to create our artistic visions with - we love it - and we can't do that without them!

    BTW - who is heading up development?

  8. #83
    pass:sword OFF's Avatar
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    We ask those questions that, from our side, not dedicated to Newtek's internal policy, seem to us to be important and disturbing to us. If you do not like our questions - nobody forces you to answer them. And if you decide to answer - why this regular empty talk on the topic "Who criticizes the company - that inadequate individual, because the company is always right!" -? The very case when it would be better to remain silent.
    Between the so-called corporate ethics and ethics in general, objectively existing in the universe - a huge difference. Since the 'corporate ethics', that the local moderator shows us, is the system of priorities of selfish interests on common interests.
    We have every reason to worry - especially since the company has been leading and acting as if our only right is to clap hands and lick her *** in response to company any actions.
    Our kind moderator every time he opens his mouth - just proves it once again.

  9. #84
    Super Member Chris S. (Fez)'s Avatar
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    I don't care who is leading development as long as the team keeps the patches coming.

  10. #85
    Super Member Chris S. (Fez)'s Avatar
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    I thought we were done with the doomsday posts. Don't panic.

  11. #86
    Super Member samurai_x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RebelHill View Post
    See... its unimaginably simple to see for anyone who actually bothers to check... Here a simple shape, made luminous, sat upon a rough reflective floor...

    Image 1... 32 camera samples, 1 reflection sample (high cam, low shading)... 2min 38

    Image 2... 1 camera sample, 32 reflection (low cam, high shade)... 49 secs

    But oh no... bad AA on the ball thing's edges... thus...

    Image 3... 4 camera samples (the minimum needed in this case for AA) and 8 reflection (to bring the total back up to 32 and thus make the quality identical to the previous)... 1min on the nose.

    That how you OPTIMSE rendertime...

    Camera samples AS LOW AS POSSIBLE for the purposes of AA in edges, MB, DOF... take out any remaining noise by increasing light and shading samples ONLY!!!

    Every time, no exceptions... EVER!!!

    Is it clear now??
    I get all that.

    1 min for THAT and still with noise?
    Here I was asking for a "slightly" complex interior scene for 10 mins. My bad.

  12. #87
    Super Member samurai_x's Avatar
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    Anyway, here's a speculation about the topic.
    They didn't sell enough and they are letting people go.
    Mark even mentioned that it would be great if lightwave went opensource.

  13. #88
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    No, no more pointless speculation based upon nothing.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by samurai_x View Post
    Anyway, here's a speculation about the topic.
    They didn't sell enough and they are letting people go.
    Mark even mentioned that it would be great if lightwave went opensource.
    yeah i thought the same. time will tell :/

  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by RebelHill View Post
    Except it's not if... IF... you use it properly. You have to forget EVERYTHING you know about the old renderer, none of it applies, and learn the new one from scratch.
    Yes if if if and then still it's slow compared to others. The interpolated GI quality is poor and by the looks of it, it is based on the age old system. In 2018 there should be an interpolated GI that does not splotch. Simple thing a render pretty quick but if things get more complex it just explodes. Check the scene I posted. If some one can make a good looking render with that I would be very surprised. I actually think there is not much wrong with the sampling system. It's the GI especially the interpolated mode. It's useless.
    Last edited by Every4thPixel; 03-02-2018 at 01:04 AM.

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