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Thread: TurbulenceFD and Lightwave 2018/2015

  1. #1
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    TurbulenceFD and Lightwave 2018/2015

    Hi folks!
    a little discussion again around turbulenceFD perhaps, itīs been a while since I tried it even in 2015.
    I was tinkering with the smoke and fire in blender, some things are great there, but in the end you want to edit the smoke smoothly and have fast renders and fast simulations, after messing with smoke and fire in blender cycles and tweaking the shaders, I couldnīt stand the slowness of cycles for the smoke, maybe I can improve on cycles preview speed and lower some settings..but I went to install the turbulenceFD 1433 version ..released 2018-01-15

    simulation fast as usual I think, if not faster..and at a scale that blender would have a hard time to cope with I think.
    Anyway..some quirks As always with setting turbulenceFD up, such as no default density value in the force channel, no density active in the container settings, and when I simulate, the objects disappears, only showcasing the smoke sim, so if I have a boat on fire..the boat dissappear while simulating, then back when finnished, can not recall if this was an issue before as well.

    another issue, now in 2018, the openGL viewport with smoke density set to smoke shader, it just gives a flat grey or whatever color you choose for the smoke, in 2015 it could represent the smoke more accurately, in fact..initially the smoke became all black, since the color of the smoke had a gradient on the color smoke channel, and it was set to previousl layer, I changed it a fluid channel gradient, not much better, then I clicked held shift down and removed the texture, and that at leas got me a bright smoke, but still no real depth as in 2015 for the openGL preveiw, if I use shader instead of smoke, that yields the standard blue green display..but smoke preview seems wonky here, and when I try to go in to the color smoke channel again and try a fluid channel gradient again, there is no option to choose the channel gradient..itīs Gone, maybe there is a certain container sim channel that needs to be recalculated for it to access that fluid channel?

    otherwise, renders decently, If you lower some settings, for testing..lowering smoke illumination quality can help vpr refresh better( that is if you choose to use illuminate smoke in the settings panel)
    to be aware of..vpr needs volumetric shadows on as well.
    I tried the multiple scattering, but it has to calculate a bit before it finnish any vpr update, quite slow I think, and any scene or object movement made, it automaticly re-calculates..so a bit of a slow workflow here.

    More to be aware of, tweaking smoke density maps is proned to often crash, it was the case for me as well with older turbulenceFD version, all through the product line for years it seems unfortunately.
    I have had, and now have some more questions regarding some of the above questions, unfortunately the forum at jawset is quite silent, and jascha I havenīt heard from for ages..so that doesnīt bring much light to questions unfortunately.

    "Kat" Kelly Myers also brings attention to these current flaws, as well as some guidance on how to install turbulenceFD correctly....

    My fixes would be..
    1. fix default setting for easier start and get going with turbulence, as I mentioned about density channels not set nor active.
    2. fix all the crashes with tweaking density maps ( may have something to do with VPR coding and not being able to deal with these kind of volumetrics properly)
    3. fix the smoke shading in opengl, which seem to now have popped up..
    4. fix the lack of both fire and smoke in openGL, (blender has it..houdini has it)
    5. fix a possible bug? with fluid channel in smoke sometimes getting lost.
    6. fix a faster multiscattering solution ..if possible.


    get a better workflow or get new kind of forces, that affects..any bullet body, particles as well as the actual fire and smoke fluids, instead of having to set any object as force.
    Implement particle Advection, again..and again

    then I am off to the shop cause I like the simulation speed and how to tweak the smoke + fire shader an controlling noise etc.



  2. #2
    I've always been here Mr_Q's Avatar
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    It's been made clear from the dev that development of TFD 1.0 is at the end of its cycle. Only support for bugs really are to be expected. (hence 1433) He's moved on to his next project and it is quite a beast. Nice to see he did spend time getting MSCAT VPR enabled. That falls in to a grey zone of bug or feature.
    Last edited by Mr_Q; 01-19-2018 at 05:48 PM.
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  3. #3
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    That OGL smoke shading issue sounds like a real downer for TFD + LW2018. It actually sounds like TFD1.x is still best hosted in LW2015.3 (at least among LW hosts) for a number of reasons.

    It's unfortunate, for all the work Newtek/LW3DG did with OGL on LW2018, they didn't see fit to really better enable third-party devs' access to viewport OGL as well, and as a result LW2018 is coming out behind LW2015 w.r.t. third-party OGL stuff. It wouldn't have been that difficult to better document and open up third-party access to their OGL contexts, and had they done it in a decently-flexible manner, they'd actually be ahead of competitors packages' viewport integrations in some ways.

    Anyway, I can't wait to see all the improvements in TFD 2.x, but Jascha needs to hurry up because (at least on C4D), competitors like X-Particles are now a lot more "serious" competition than they were in the past.
    Last edited by jwiede; 01-19-2018 at 06:18 PM.
    John W.
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  4. #4
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Q View Post
    It's been made clear from the dev that development of TFD 1.0 is at the end of its cycle. Only support for bugs really are to be expected. (hence 1433) He's moved on to his next project and it is quite a beast. Nice to see he did spend time getting MSCAT VPR enabled. That falls in to a grey zone of bug or feature.
    what..wasnīt aware of that, so you mean there will be no more future turbulenceFD version? and no replacement? or is this next project something new in fluids that will be available for Lightwave?
    Or do you mean only the end of a certain version cycle of it?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    That OGL smoke shading issue sounds like a real downer for TFD + LW2018. It actually sounds like TFD1.x is still best hosted in LW2015.3 (at least among LW hosts) for a number of reasons.

    It's unfortunate, for all the work Newtek/LW3DG did with OGL on LW2018, they didn't see fit to really better enable third-party devs' access to OGL as well, and as a result LW2018 comes out behind LW2015 in many ways. It wouldn't have been that difficult to better document and open up third-party access to their OGL contexts, and had they done it in a decently-flexible way, they'd actually be ahead of competitors packages' viewport integrations in some ways.

    Anyway, I can't wait to see all the improvements in TFD 2.x, but Jascha needs to hurry up because (at least on C4D), competitors like X-Particles are now a lot more "serious" competition than they were in the past.
    Aha..so there was just a cycle end to it all?

  5. #5
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Aha..so there was just a cycle end to it all?
    As far as I know, Jascha is just finally ending 1.x support and moving on to 2.x. Considering just how long 1.x lasted, I imagine he's desperately in need of upgrade revenue -- I'm shocked he didn't end 1.x a long time ago, frankly.
    John W.
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    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    I thought I read a while back that the next Turbulence is going to be a standalone tool. Is that accurate or just a rumor?

    Thanks in advance for any reliable answer.

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    Oh I sincerely hope that is not the case.. he'll loose customers because of it. Because then you can just as well stick with Houdini or Blender, which can generate smoke etc.. for free. That it integrates is a major selling point.

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    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelT View Post
    Oh I sincerely hope that is not the case.. he'll loose customers because of it. Because then you can just as well stick with Houdini or Blender, which can generate smoke etc.. for free. That it integrates is a major selling point.
    A bit worrying yes, and I agree with you..
    Jascha has been very silent on his own forums, canīt blame him if heīs really busy etc, but it would be good to have him a tiny bit active in their and answer a bit of questions, or if he can, make a clear statement of wether or not turbulenceFD2 will be standalone only or working within cinema4d and lightwave..or both?

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    With that I'm guessing that I might have to get the 1.x version before it is too late :/

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    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelT View Post
    With that I'm guessing that I might have to get the 1.x version before it is too late :/
    Why...do you think he would close the shop of the lightwave plugins after that?and as you said yourself, why not go for houdini or blender?

  11. #11
    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelT View Post
    Oh I sincerely hope that is not the case...That it integrates is a major selling point.
    Yes, I agree. I was an early adopter of TFD because it was a LightWave plugin, and because of Jascha's excellent support. It's been an awesome tool and I've used it in dozens of films and commercials over the years.

    If TFD is indeed going standalone, I may upgrade if the workflow is still easy and it plays well with LightWave. But of course, if it goes standalone, I may as well consider other programs too (thanks to OpenVBD support.)

    BTW, not trying to stir trouble or anything...going standalone was just something I saw mentioned in another thread and it may only be a rumor. I was only asking if anybody has official info from Jascha about this.

    If TFD continues as a LightWave plugin in the future, I'm definitely on-board with it.

  12. #12
    I'm pretty excited about TFD2, from the last presentation he did on the technology a long time ago. If he can pull it off, I wouldn't mind it being a standalone if it is easy and intuitive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Why...do you think he would close the shop of the lightwave plugins after that?and as you said yourself, why not go for houdini or blender?
    Oh no.. that's not what I meant. Usually when a program changes major version, the previous one goes away (Just look at the LW store) What I meant is that if it goes standalone, then the only option to have it integrated is to get it now.
    If I choose to do this.. then I'll get it for C4D, and not LW. Because of the lack of support for advection in the LW version.

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    Just checked out this video:

    http://on-demand.gputechconf.com/gtc...deo/S5611.html

    He says right in the beginning that TD2 will intergrate into LW & C4D (and a few more)

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    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelT View Post
    Oh no.. that's not what I meant. Usually when a program changes major version, the previous one goes away (Just look at the LW store) What I meant is that if it goes standalone, then the only option to have it integrated is to get it now.
    If I choose to do this.. then I'll get it for C4D, and not LW. Because of the lack of support for advection in the LW version.
    Same for me..almost, I think the c4d version seems better intergrated, the problem is that I am not keen on investing in cinema4D, and not motivated unless I need it for some work and not as now as Mainly hobbyist, itīs not only particle advection, itīs also about previewing smoke ..which doesnīt seem to work that well with VPR, and cinema4d has itīs own, then I wonder if turbulenceFD in cinema4d can use weigth maps for emission.


    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelT View Post
    Just checked out this video:

    http://on-demand.gputechconf.com/gtc...deo/S5611.html

    He says right in the beginning that TD2 will intergrate into LW & C4D (and a few more)
    Great research, I will look at that, currently both friday and this saturday, and problably sunday..I have set aside to try both blender smoke..openVDB exports and messing with the new turbulenceFD, may thread about blender openVDB just might be interesting as well..
    And I have yet to install houdini apprentice again and try that workflow...puh.

    Michael, You havenīt considered 3d max and fumefx? Not sure if you have had the time to check out Mc kays fire and explosion, destruction effects series?

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