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Thread: LW2018 - Enable Bump ?

  1. #1

    LW2018 - Enable Bump ?


    hi there,

    anything like Enable Bump or similar available in LW2018 ?
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  2. #2
    TrueArt Support
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    (not exactly the same)

    Object Properties,
    Surface Displacement,
    double click it, to open panel, and adjust Distance.
    And plug something to Displacement.

  3. #3

    ah!..

    excellent! 
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  4. #4
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Blah double post

  5. #5
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Itīs quite not the same, and the function of actually tweaking a bump map and have it displace at the same time is broken, as mentioned..surface displacement may actually be easier for displacement, but it also requires more dig in to to get the displacements, an for tweaking bump and displacement at the same time, you obviously need to feed both displacement output and bump output in to respective inputs, so I actually think the previous way was a bit shorter and easier in steps taken within the workflow, in 2018 you have to enter both the primitive properties surface displacement and check it to be on, then set a distance as you would with enable bump in deform tab previoulsy, then you have to enter node graph in the material and further on search for your procedural and add it, then go through the hoops of connecting it.

    Personally I see a tendency of going too much nodal without things being hardwired in easier setup buttons a bit troublesome, not only here..but within the new volumetric system as well and some other stuff, it worries me a bit that Lighwave will loose a bit of the old fast and easy setup workflow.

  6. #6
    I agree with you on these points!

  7. #7
    creacon
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    A displacement map and a bump map are 2 completely different concepts.
    It's good they're separated now. (and if you used the node editor in LW2015 they already were)

    creacon

  8. #8

    i have to disagree a bit, since the impact is minimal.

    looking at how much faster LW2018 workflow wise is in general.

    though yes, there are 1 or 2 things that could be improved.
    that said, overall, i find the new system much better, once i got used to it.

    (Turbulence just had an update by the way, check Kat's video)

    Gi and PBR is way easier / better overall in LW2018.

    while LW2018 is not perfect, it's very welcome.
    Last edited by erikals; 01-15-2018 at 04:51 PM.
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  9. #9
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creacon View Post
    A displacement map and a bump map are 2 completely different concepts.
    It's good they're separated now. (and if you used the node editor in LW2015 they already were)

    creacon
    The way they worked together is not different concepts, individually yes, depends on your own workflow which kind you like.

  10. #10
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    i have to disagree a bit, since the impact is minimal.

    looking at how much faster LW2018 workflow wise is in general.

    though yes, there are 1 or 2 things that could be improved.
    that said, overall, i find the new system much better, once i got used to it.

    (Turbulence just had an update by the way, check Kat's video)

    Gi and PBR is way easier / better overall in LW2018.

    while LW2018 is not perfect, it's very welcome.
    Thanks for the heads up on turbulence, I need to install the latest demo and try and see how it works now with 2018.
    As for dsagree..we all have our rights to that of course, and yes..maybe overall it has improved, but I honestly can not judge that in a sum up yet, still much more to test, but what I have seen when getting acess to textures ..procedurals, setting up volumetrics..I am not that fond of that Tendency to disconnect features and leave it up to users to go deeper in the nodes to re-connect the ease of tweaking a function.
    But ..to early to say, I just see tendency of this occouring in some places, and I hope it doesnīt start to popup everywhere.

  11. #11

    link
    http://www.liberty3d.com/2018/01/fre...fd-build-1433/

    yes, some features could be added, sort of like a default preset.
    be sure to send feature requests.
    i have some upcoming ones.
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  12. #12
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Enhanced workflows..
    I just recently answered a question here in the forums, about copying particle emitter settings, and with 2018 it is now easy to copy a particle emitter setting to several other layers at once, if you use the scene editor, donīt think that was possible with 2015, so that is a good one for 2018.

    http://forums.newtek.com/showthread....44#post1533444

    ----
    Working and setting up a volumetric effect is however with the new system much harder in almost anything, it wonīt work on point clusters, you can not just pull down a hypertexture list, that requires entering nodes and search for whatever texture you need and then plug it in, what used to be tiny half seconds, now takes several seconds in that regards, setting up a motion effect within the new system was made easy with hypertexture effect speed values and various effect, where we now have to add nulls and dig in deeper in the workings, shading model is also harder to use.

    We do not have a new replacement for liquid particles either, the new system doesnīt come with a surface mode as hypervoxels has, neither sprites.

    I see the new system as half implemented currently and Not a real replacement, but an addition to an old system, though I would have liked them to make it easer to acess the old hv system.
    +++ allows for more realistic hero clouds, though it will not be able to produce godrays and large sky vistas alo ozone, vue, terragen or ogo taiki in a decent speed render result.

    +++
    On the other hand, I think they took a right path with the volumetric scattering and the new lights, except that I would have liked a sprite function within some lights, as we had in the old volumetric system, that is all gone now, and even not replacable really, I also miss a true distant light working with volumetrics, this new distant light doesnīt work with the volumetric intergrator unfortunately.

  13. #13
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creacon View Post
    A displacement map and a bump map are 2 completely different concepts.
    It's good they're separated now. (and if you used the node editor in LW2015 they already were)

    creacon
    Your comment got me wondering, why is it good they are separated now?
    by the way, they have always been seperated in essence, the function of adding a bump displacement was asked for or a feature added that seemed good to have, it wasnīt there in the older lightwave versions, so how do you figure it is good they are seperated?

    If the workflow or new additions with surface displace makes it not useful anymore? that I have yet to be convinced about, I could ofcourse be wrong.

  14. #14

    though it will not be able to produce godrays and large sky vistas
    from what i've seen it should look fine and render in a decent time (?)

    GodRays

    Shadow

    Self Shadow


    there is also an Earth w/Clouds scene in the content files (full version only, not trial)
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  15. #15
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post

    from what i've seen it should look fine and render in a decent time (?)

    GodRays


    there is also an Earth w/Clouds scene in the content files (full version only, not trial)
    Not fast rendertimes, itīs just volumetric lights in trees, not within a volumetric item such as clouds....terragen and vue still does this faster and better.
    Erikals...none of those samples are really godrays, itīs just volumetric beam scattering in trees, not the per definition godrays, crepuscular rays ..which is rays casts from clouds obscuring light, I am almost certain of that..
    Edit..may be wrong in the classification, if now crepuscular rays can be defined as such rays cast with other objects like trees, but it is till not in reference to the long rendertimes on what I ment about clouds and volumetric mixing.

    And the thing is..tree samples like this and some in the trial content and the new volumetrics is a great addition, and helps sunbeams also in settings with windows, chearch and similar, but itīs not any samples of rays cause by the new volumetric voxel system, Lino posted a sample some time ago with that, and I did some samples the other day with the new system..but to be aware of, rendering times will still be slow despite the new engine, and

    I am not talking about samples like the forrest, and if you try and make godrays with the new volumetrics, it means you Can not use the distant light..it doesnīt work with the new volumetric system, you are forced to use point, spherical or linear or some of the other lights, but distant light wonīt work, that poses an issue of getting the other lights positioned right, you need either sunspot or sunsky motion if you want to tweak the lightīs elevation and azimuth, but if you use that, you will be having a hard time getting the light volumetric to propagate through the atmosphere all the way to through a cloud, very very difficult..if not impossible...

    with such lights as point light and spherical ( I recommend spherical) you need to position the light not too far behind the clouds (which physicly isnīt really right) for it to take an effect of casting godrays, so it is acheivable by faking the light a bit and position it behind the cloud volume slightly, but there is then a couple of problems, the clouds really need a distant light to light up and break shadows within the cloud volume, if you only have a point light within the cloud, it will look horrible, if you then however clone the light and change to distant light, you will get a better ligthing in the cloud but also having the other light cast godrays.


    Thereīs also a way of using the new system in the same way I did before with hypervoxels, turn of the volumetric scattering for lights, and simply use a volumetric item with very..very low density and let it catch rays from any light type, and in this case you can use a distant light as well, with a fog item like that, I can also set fog height and depth to control where the fog is lying, wherelse the fog scattering may be much more difficult with setting various nodes up for height en length of the global scattering.

    Another note, some clouds sample in the trial, are very sized down in scale, coupl of meters I think, once you start to scale cloud items up to more physical scale, it will become much slower, so I am not overthrilled with the speed of the new system, I like the looks of them in terms of shading and softness.
    hypervoxels old legacy is also benefitting from the new renderer, it allows for multiply nulls vith hvs..without freezing the system (not possible before)as I mentioned and renders as fast as the new volumetrics, if not faster actually, and with the new sampled lights, it also renders with details not possible before..and that is with the old hypervoxels that is.

    The clouds and lighting scattering in clouds and atmosphere is more accurate and quite speedy in terragen, but for fly through clouds and hero clouds specially designed, Lightwave may be up for the challenge...and terragen isnīt the nicest software in terms of using and UI.

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