Page 28 of 34 FirstFirst ... 182627282930 ... LastLast
Results 406 to 420 of 510

Thread: LW 2018 Comments/Opinions

  1. #406
    I have had some time to do some playing around with the new render engine and most everything seems to be looking good and working good so far except for the fact that all scenes I have tested take much longer to render in 2018 vs 2015 and in most cases the render times are at least doubled what they are in 2015 with the same settings. I would be willing to overlook this and accept it if there was a good trade off for quality but there isn't any. I really don't think this has anything to do with PBR either. This is the same as making my computer slower.

    Why does 2018 take much longer to render than 2015 did?
    Threadripper 2990WX, X399 MSI MEG Creation, 64GB 2400Mhz RAM, GTX 1070 Ti 8GB

    https://www.dynamicrenderings.com/

  2. #407
    Visualization FreeLance THIBAULT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Rodez, France
    Posts
    507
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas Jordan View Post
    I have had some time to do some playing around with the new render engine and most everything seems to be looking good and working good so far except for the fact that all scenes I have tested take much longer to render in 2018 vs 2015 and in most cases the render times are at least doubled what they are in 2015 with the same settings. I would be willing to overlook this and accept it if there was a good trade off for quality but there isn't any. I really don't think this has anything to do with PBR either. This is the same as making my computer slower.

    Why does 2018 take much longer to render than 2015 did?
    Yes, it's a problem here too ! Waiting for Octane !
    But for LW2018, OD Tools, Lwcad and Octane ! It's again a good deal for Archiviz
    Last edited by THIBAULT; 01-08-2018 at 11:23 AM.

  3. #408
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    jersey
    Posts
    5,771
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas Jordan View Post
    Why does 2018 take much longer to render than 2015 did?
    Because scenes need to be optimised to work best in 2018. To an extent this comes down to a few settings that just work a bit different so need to be tweaked, though it's also true that since the renderer, materials and lighting system all function so differently, that often it can require a redo of how the scene is setup overall, especially in regards to the lighting, GI and how the two work together.

    It's just not the case that you can load something from before 2018 into the new system, hit render, and consider it a "fair" comparison. In the case where you setup and tweak, to best practices something in 2015 (or earlier), take the same thing, and setup and tweak it in 2018 with 2018's best practices, you will, in almost EVERY instance either get comparable quality in less time, or better in the same.
    LSR Surface and Rendering Tuts.
    RHiggit Rigging and Animation Tools
    RHA Animation Tutorials
    RHR Rigging Tutorials
    RHN Nodal Tutorials
    YT Vids Tuts for all

  4. #409
    Grumpy Faux-Waver DogBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Central London
    Posts
    1,549
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas Jordan View Post
    Iin most cases the render times are at least doubled what they are in 2015 with the same settings. ?
    There is your problem right there
    fauxWaver \foʊ-wāv-er\, n. one who likes LightWave, but shuns car-anologies.

  5. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by RebelHill View Post
    Because scenes need to be optimised to work best in 2018. To an extent this comes down to a few settings that just work a bit different so need to be tweaked, though it's also true that since the renderer, materials and lighting system all function so differently, that often it can require a redo of how the scene is setup overall, especially in regards to the lighting, GI and how the two work together.

    It's just not the case that you can load something from before 2018 into the new system, hit render, and consider it a "fair" comparison. In the case where you setup and tweak, to best practices something in 2015 (or earlier), take the same thing, and setup and tweak it in 2018 with 2018's best practices, you will, in almost EVERY instance either get comparable quality in less time, or better in the same.
    I have tried tweaking settings and converting materials with little or no difference. I have also tried scenes that have nothing other than grey standard surface with no particular settings and still get longer render times. I will have to set up a simple test scene when I get a chance to help prove my point. I'm thinking GI alone is much slower with the same settings. This just doesn't sit well with me since the scenes I have tried don't look any better than what they did in 2015.
    Threadripper 2990WX, X399 MSI MEG Creation, 64GB 2400Mhz RAM, GTX 1070 Ti 8GB

    https://www.dynamicrenderings.com/

  6. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by DogBoy View Post
    There is your problem right there
    I guess I should say GI settings because they are the same in the UI as 2015. Also AA is the same as well.
    Threadripper 2990WX, X399 MSI MEG Creation, 64GB 2400Mhz RAM, GTX 1070 Ti 8GB

    https://www.dynamicrenderings.com/

  7. #412
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    jersey
    Posts
    5,771
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas Jordan View Post
    I guess I should say GI settings because they are the same in the UI as 2015. Also AA is the same as well.
    They NOT the same.

    The boxes in the UI may have the same name.

    The numbers you enter may be the same.

    Still NOT the same.
    LSR Surface and Rendering Tuts.
    RHiggit Rigging and Animation Tools
    RHA Animation Tutorials
    RHR Rigging Tutorials
    RHN Nodal Tutorials
    YT Vids Tuts for all

  8. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by grabiller View Post
    You can find those values in signal reconstruction literature or in other renderer documentations.
    http://www.k-3d.org/wiki/RenderMan_Controls
    http://softimage.wiki.softimage.com/...eFiltering.htm
    http://www.impresszio.hu/szabolcs/Me...aySampling.htm
    https://renderman.pixar.com/resource...#pixel-filters
    ../..

    But thanks for asking me because I just realized I made the confusion between width and radius, so I stand corrected, the Lightwave 2018 Filter Radius unit is ok.

    So let me rephrase my sayings, and I apologize for the confusion:
    Box: 1 Pixel Width, so 0.5 Filter Radius in Lightwave 2018.
    Triangle: 2 Pixels Width, so 1.0 Filter Radius.
    Gaussian: 2 to 3 Pixels Width, so 1.0 to 1.5 Filter Radius.
    Mitchell: 4 Pixels Width, so 2.0 Filter Radius.
    LanczosSync: 6 Pixels Width, so 3.0 Filter Radius.

    Those are the "canonical" values. Width values below 1 cause artifacts to appear (radius below 0.5).
    Good info.
    Is lightwave Lanczos 3 lobe or 2.....I imagine 3 but that would make a difference between 6 pixel and 4 pixel sampling

  9. #414
    Engineer/Entrepreneur Sekhar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pasadena, CA
    Posts
    2,124
    Could someone give pointers on how to get started with FFX in 2018 vis-a-vis 2015? E.g., below are the renders with 2015 and 2018 on a 2015 FFX content scene. Wondering if I could get some general approaches for adapting the scene for 2018 before messing with the settings. My question is specifically on how to make 2018 render like with 2015.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Default_2015_00_27.png 
Views:	96 
Size:	381.6 KB 
ID:	139298Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Default_01_51.png 
Views:	114 
Size:	401.8 KB 
ID:	139299

  10. #415
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    a place
    Posts
    1,856
    Quote Originally Posted by RebelHill View Post

    It's just not the case that you can load something from before 2018 into the new system, hit render, and consider it a "fair" comparison. In the case where you setup and tweak, to best practices something in 2015 (or earlier), take the same thing, and setup and tweak it in 2018 with 2018's best practices, you will, in almost EVERY instance either get comparable quality in less time, or better in the same.
    and best practices are?

  11. #416
    Grumpy Faux-Waver DogBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Central London
    Posts
    1,549
    Quote Originally Posted by Sekhar View Post
    My question is specifically on how to make 2018 render like with 2015.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Default_2015_00_27.png 
Views:	96 
Size:	381.6 KB 
ID:	139298Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Default_01_51.png 
Views:	114 
Size:	401.8 KB 
ID:	139299
    You can't .
    Joking asde, in 2015 FFX used percentages to define thickness, it now uses real-world scale. So, make sure the objects are real-world scale, then tone down the fibres to meet actual hair or fibre thicknesses, then take it from there.
    fauxWaver \foʊ-wāv-er\, n. one who likes LightWave, but shuns car-anologies.

  12. #417
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    jersey
    Posts
    5,771
    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    and best practices are?
    Well, long story short...

    Use the raytraced reflection and refraction model for all surfaces, dont bother with BG radiosity, use environment lights for exteriors, portals for interiors, set your recursions only as high as you need, and work your sampling to use lower camera sample numbers, and higher in lights and shading... that really is all there is to it and tells you everything.

    Ofc... why all of these things constitute best practice, what each of them mean specifically, and how they work together to constitute a workflow that you can follow, troubleshoot, and even on occasion step outside of in special circumstances, is going to be the long version of the story, and is kinda the reason why my tutorial series is going to be many hours long.
    LSR Surface and Rendering Tuts.
    RHiggit Rigging and Animation Tools
    RHA Animation Tutorials
    RHR Rigging Tutorials
    RHN Nodal Tutorials
    YT Vids Tuts for all

  13. #418
    Super Member samurai_x's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    lalaland
    Posts
    1,231

    lw 2015 renderer vs lw 2018 renderer

    Is it time to benchmark with the infamous kitchen scene? Looks butt ugly now but still a good test for splotches, noise, corner artifacts.




    Vray killed this scene and all other renderers with it.

    I can't find the file. I think this was more than 10 years ago.

  14. #419
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Oxford, UK
    Posts
    796
    Quote Originally Posted by RebelHill View Post
    Use the raytraced reflection and refraction model for all surfaces, dont bother with BG radiosity, use environment lights for exteriors, portals for interiors, set your recursions only as high as you need, and work your sampling to use lower camera sample numbers, and higher in lights and shading... that really is all there is to it and tells you everything.
    Note to Self,

    Print. Make poster. Put on wall.


  15. #420
    Super Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Hamburg
    Posts
    1,571
    Quote Originally Posted by RebelHill View Post
    ... in almost EVERY instance either get comparable quality in less time, or better in the same.
    No offence but this remains to be proven.

    As I see it, Newtek made a wrong decision writing a new CPU renderer in times where everyone else is moving towards GPU. Some here say, they can add GPU support later. AFAIK they would need to rewrite the whole thing for GPU, materials and shaders included.

Page 28 of 34 FirstFirst ... 182627282930 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •