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Thread: We deserve a roadmap

  1. #181
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    I certainly wish what some of you say about people and good communications was true, but it just isn't. The majority of people may understand when a developer makes a conditional or a qualified statement and adds "Subject to change" disclaimers, but you are sitting in the middle of the biggest pool of proof in the universe that there are people who will disregard all of that and call everything mentioned in any capacity and on however theoretical and disclaimed a basis, a "promise," talk about it as a fail, and use it to talk about NewTek collectively and as individuals as failures. You don't have to read these forums very long to find an example of this. You don't have to go outside this thread.

    NewTek have fails, but there are also things that some people treated as fails that just simply were no such thing.

    I feel like I am about to tell you all something everyone could reasonably have figured out for themselves, so my apologies for those who feel like I am being Captain Obvious, because they had this sorted. At the cusp of a release and when there has also been a departure of personnel, NewTek's executives and communicators have a pile of work to sort out in terms of the product release, the product's management going forward, staffing, re-evaluating existing plans, re-evaluating the market as part of re-evaluating existing plans, and whole lot more. Pushing the community off the topic of a new release and making the conversation about a roadmap and future releases right now absolutely of course can produce nothing but an exercise in total and complete frustration for all involved.

    Substantive discussion about the future really just cannot happen right now in the current circumstances. NewTek has a lot to work through to get to that point, and frankly would anyway, even if the situation were as simple as just having the new release to get out.

    Here's what can happen now (and is happening):
    • NewTek LightWave Team members and NewTek Video team members are engaging here and will continue to do so going forward - but please understand it may not be as intensely as right now. Everyone involved has multiple obligations, and you have us way outnumbered.
    • NewTek LightWave Team members and NewTek Video Marketing team members are working on additional content about the new release for the website. There is material that we already had in mind for this, but we are also compiling your questions and comments from the threads here as a guide to additional ideas.
    • NewTek LightWave Team members and NewTek Video Marketing team members are working on a new communications plan for the LW3DG.


    I didn't mistakenly omit "Marketing" in the first point - some of the folks engaging here in the forum are from other departments on the Video side.

    So, people have expressed their views in plenty on the long term without appropriate communications - NewTek owns it, we apologize, we intend not to let such a lapse occur again.

    People have also expressed what they want from future communications, executive management is fully aware of the feedback, and NewTek has ducks to line up to reach the point of having the proper responsible personnel sorted out to pursue that topic. So we ask your patience - we'll come back to the discussion when the ducks are lined up, and that would also need to be some amount of time after the release because that has to be "all hands" for a while.

    For now we are going to concentrate our efforts on the release materials in preparation, and responding to questions and discussion about the release itself, because that's what we can productively do for you for the moment.
    Thanks Chuck, chrystal clear, I hope you all guys managed to enjoy christmas too, despite the upcoming release and what that means in terms of packaging it all.

  2. #182
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    does lw still come in a box or is it all digital theses days?

  3. #183
    Registered User sami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hypersuperduper View Post
    ...I for one wouldn’t mind a period where lightwave receives frequent incremental updates and helpful workflow improvements instead of lofty promises, structural changes, and absurdly long development times. ...
    Sounds like some dev team needs to implement modern agile practices like I (and probably jweide) have been saying for a long time. This includes continuous integration and delivery - something every team that releases regularly needs.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    does lw still come in a box or is it all digital theses days?
    I would prefer they did as before. I'd certainly Pay to have a boxed copy.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by hypersuperduper View Post
    I for one wouldn’t mind a period where lightwave receives frequent incremental updates and helpful workflow improvements instead of lofty promises, structural changes, and absurdly long development times.
    +1 +1 +1

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by gjjackson View Post
    I would prefer they did as before. I'd certainly Pay to have a boxed copy.
    i remember getting the 6 one and it came with some plastic bugs in it. must still have them somewhere.

  7. #187
    Registered User sami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    When I ran my own little business, I fired the odd squeaky wheel customer. I'm delighted to work very hard with someone to meet their needs, but people who think they'll get ever more out of you by shrieking just aren't worth the time or aggravation.
    This attitude (despite your generally wonderful, kind and inclusive nature moderating here) combined with the odd posts I've seen here from Newtek (e.g. one from a dev named Jon) here, seem to me like they have a strong undercurrent of disdain for the customer.

    Yes some customers may be a*holes (hopefully you don't consider reasonable ones like myself such) but my experience in business and building products leads me to believe in the old phrase "the customer is always right". If you harbor disdain even for your difficult customers then you are missing valuable opportunities and leaving money on the table.

    The really great, transformative CEOs I've met see difficult customers as opportunities - not personal slights.
    Last edited by sami; 12-17-2017 at 05:01 PM.

  8. #188
    Grafiks iz us dsol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLexx View Post
    Good post dsol. Ditto Saint Bowie (though I leave you to inform His Pontiff). I see you are/were connected with "London Lightwave". Does it still meet, or is LALightwave the last group left in the world ?
    It's been literally years since we had the last London meetup - but I'd really like to do another one in the new year, especially as we're finally seeing a new LW release. I know a few 'wavers who are still about, so it would be great to get it going again, if there's interest
    Dan Sollis : Independent CGI Designer & compositor
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    http://www.londonlightwave.org.uk/

  9. #189
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sami View Post
    .... my experience in business and building products leads me to believe in the old phrase "the customer is always right". If you harbor disdain even for your difficult customers then you are missing valuable opportunities and leaving money on the table.

    The really great, transformative CEOs I've met see difficult customers as opportunities - not personal slights.
    This is all true...until it isn't. If every customer was right at all times, and we tried to give every last one of them exactly what they asked for, our products would be a disaster. It's appropriate to treat everyone with dignity, and to listen carefully to them. But you don't need to be a doormat, either. Apple is considered fairly successful, but they don't tolerate ranting in their forums. Raise too much of a ruckus at Walmart, and someone will call security.

    Here's some interesting reading on the topic: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alexan...b_5145636.html

    Forum policy clearly states that this 'is not a free speech zone". When I have a problem with a product that requires me to enter a complaint, I do so with civility. Failure to exercise personal restraint at such times only exacerbates the problem, and makes it needlessly hard for the recipient to pay attention, and even often to understand the point you're trying to make.

    As a said in another post, some who really like to dish it out all of a sudden become very delicate if they imagine a slight toward them. That has always seemed a bit ironic to me. We make lots of room for passionate expression, but if someone is perpetually on fire and determined to burn the place down, they should not be too surprised if someone eventually turns a hose on them. Present company excepted, of course.
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  10. #190
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    steve, you can’t deny that there have been a lot of good feature requests, bugs pointed out and ideas put forward over a good (ten years?) period since lw 6 and nothing has happened to address those issues. for example, has the rounder bug been fixed? tbh i hesitate to ask as we have been asking since version 6 and its it a contentious issue.

    i take your point though. it’s easy to forget there is a person on the other end of the line and not a faceless company but when there is total silence that illlision is the one that sticks in the mind of the difficult customer. i can’t speak for any other customer but the broken silence has helped dispel that ilusion. maybe if there wasn’t a silence in the first place there wouldn’t be as many difficult customers?

    but this is all water under the bridge now, right? new direction, new policy, everyone’s happy
    Last edited by gar26lw; 12-17-2017 at 07:40 PM.

  11. #191
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    i can’t speak for any other customer but the broken silence has helped dispel that ilusion. maybe if there wasn’t a silence in the first place there wouldn’t be as many difficult customers?
    I don't disagree. I have said many times this year that I sympathized with the customer in this matter, and it was true. As evidence of that, we made far more than the usual allowance for posts that evidenced outrage in considerably less than civil terms. That is not to say that I think this is a good approach to things, but it's understandable.
    --
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  12. #192
    Super Member Snosrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    steve, you can’t deny that there have been a lot of good feature requests, bugs pointed out and ideas put forward over a good (ten years?) period since lw 6 and nothing has happened to address those issues. for example, has the rounder bug been fixed? tbh i hesitate to ask as we have been asking since version 6 and its it a contentious issue.
    Rounder was never in 6. Just sayin. It came in 8. And FYI it's not going to get fixed. Replaced maybe - fixed no. NT even reached out to Richard Brak on this and he couldn't fix it.

  13. #193
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    please, bear my bad english.
    Maybe a little late, but I wanted to give my personal opinion on this subject. I will try to focus on FACTS:

    First, I know that:
    - Newtek can talk with the user when they want/feel and they are not obligated to do so.
    - They owe nothing to the users.
    - etc

    But;
    - I'm not a kid anymore, after more than 20 years I dont want to change software/learn a different app
    - I use it to make money/support my family so if Lighwave suddenly dies (like some were thinking a few day ago before the announcement) I am screwed (back to previous point)
    - I´ve been struggling with some aspects where LW is behind some other 3D packages. Now that 3+ years passed I am more behind than ever. This is, for me and me only, the most important point. Will LW start to cut its shortcomings for good?
    (please dont say this is no fact, because it is. )

    Being a generalist, making characters (animals often), sometimes asked for Motion Graphics, hair, particles, fluid, etc. you realize that things that are common and easy in other packages requires tricks, "cheats", insane amounts of work in LW or are plain impossible.
    I repeat, this is my view and not all can share it (maybe no one) but I tried to keep emotions out and make it all facts.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by leandropedrouzo View Post
    please, bear my bad english.
    Maybe a little late, but I wanted to give my personal opinion on this subject. I will try to focus on FACTS:

    First, I know that:
    - Newtek can talk with the user when they want/feel and they are not obligated to do so.
    - They owe nothing to the users.
    - etc

    But;
    - I'm not a kid anymore, after more than 20 years I dont want to change software/learn a different app
    - I use it to make money/support my family so if Lighwave suddenly dies (like some were thinking a few day ago before the announcement) I am screwed (back to previous point)
    - I´ve been struggling with some aspects where LW is behind some other 3D packages. Now that 3+ years passed I am more behind than ever. This is, for me and me only, the most important point. Will LW start to cut its shortcomings for good?
    (please dont say this is no fact, because it is. )

    Being a generalist, making characters (animals often), sometimes asked for Motion Graphics, hair, particles, fluid, etc. you realize that things that are common and easy in other packages requires tricks, "cheats", insane amounts of work in LW or are plain impossible.
    I repeat, this is my view and not all can share it (maybe no one) but I tried to keep emotions out and make it all facts.
    Very well stated. No problem with your English.

    mTp

  15. #195
    Super Member samurai_x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leandropedrouzo View Post
    please, bear my bad english.
    Maybe a little late, but I wanted to give my personal opinion on this subject. I will try to focus on FACTS:

    First, I know that:
    - Newtek can talk with the user when they want/feel and they are not obligated to do so.
    - They owe nothing to the users.
    - etc

    But;
    - I'm not a kid anymore, after more than 20 years I dont want to change software/learn a different app
    - I use it to make money/support my family so if Lighwave suddenly dies (like some were thinking a few day ago before the announcement) I am screwed (back to previous point)
    - I´ve been struggling with some aspects where LW is behind some other 3D packages. Now that 3+ years passed I am more behind than ever. This is, for me and me only, the most important point. Will LW start to cut its shortcomings for good?
    (please dont say this is no fact, because it is. )

    Being a generalist, making characters (animals often), sometimes asked for Motion Graphics, hair, particles, fluid, etc. you realize that things that are common and easy in other packages requires tricks, "cheats", insane amounts of work in LW or are plain impossible.
    I repeat, this is my view and not all can share it (maybe no one) but I tried to keep emotions out and make it all facts.
    It would be good to list down those shortcoming and fog it. If fogbugz is still open for common users.
    People have different needs. Some don't even need lightwave unified....smh.

    3dcoat has mantis tracker and is so awesome, The developer actually has a list of what users actually want and works on it. There's even a voting poll to prioritize features.

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