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Thread: We deserve a roadmap

  1. #1

    We deserve a roadmap

    I've been a lightwave user for more than 20 years and I've built my professional career mostly thanks to the use of this software.
    In these last years, when the brightness of lightwave started to fade, I've kept on supporting it and defende my choice despite what other people or competitors
    around me thought.
    It was hard to find collaborators that were able to use it, who were willing to learn it etc., but Lightwave always proved to be productive and, like many of us, I've delivered very important projects thanks to it.
    I've always thought it was the best choice for my kind of work.

    But now things are different.

    I do think this last release will be a great boost of productivity for people like me who have a long production experience with Lw (as well as render farm, plugins etc), nevertheless I WILL NOT UPGRADE MY LICENCES UNTIL I GET A CLEAR ROADMAP STATEMENT FROM LIGHTWAVE GROUP. After such a long time of silence we DESERVE IT.

    I've talked with many users and I'm sure that many of them share my opinion. After one and an half year of silence that showed no respect for us, being a loyal user I felt so disappointed that I've started looking for and purchaising alternative softwares.
    We 've made our living thanks to lightwave and changing software is not an easy choice, but respect towards users should be a top priority for any company, expecially in this case, since the Lightwave community is a special one.

    I really hope that many users will follow my choice and force Lightwave group to reveal the guidelines of their future developement plans as well as a predictable timing before upgrading.
    Other companies do it, why do we always have to wait for a new release feeling anxious and with the fear that promises won't be kept?
    If Newtek or lightwave group want to have a future, and keep at least their user base, they owe this to us.
    technical & art director
    3dSign the rendering&animation studio
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  2. #2

  3. #3
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    i just wrote in another thread that all expectations are futile and tbh, i think you are wasting your time. be happy you got an upgrade. sucks but there you go. that’s the lw life.

  4. #4
    The last few times LW announced anything early, Luxology copied and beat them to the punch. Don't expect them to tell their competition how to beat their upcoming release.

  5. #5
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomascheng View Post
    The last few times LW announced anything early, Luxology copied and beat them to the punch. Don't expect them to tell their competition how to beat their upcoming release.
    Well, that's a generous construction to put on things, but being honest, I doubt this would be in the top five reasons why NewTek is probably never going to publish a roadmap.
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  6. #6
    Carbon fibre dongle® 50one's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomascheng View Post
    The last few times LW announced anything early, Luxology copied and beat them to the punch. Don't expect them to tell their competition how to beat their upcoming release.
    Huh? Care to elaborate?

  7. #7
    Registered User Wickedpup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomascheng View Post
    The last few times LW announced anything early, Luxology copied and beat them to the punch. Don't expect them to tell their competition how to beat their upcoming release.
    Yeah, I would also like to hear more specific details about this......

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    Well, that's a generous construction to put on things, but being honest, I doubt this would be in the top five reasons why NewTek is probably never going to publish a roadmap.
    I think a roadmap implies they are going to deliver and that scares them. Personally, I think this is exactly the kick they need. Probably why it was Rob's parting statement.

  9. #9
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    I realise it is a bit of a thing to say after the dark period, but I think LW should reserve the right to change their minds and change direction in any given situation, though I'm not saying it is a great strategy and I think they know that. But even more blasé, in reality roadmap priority one right now would be to shift as many LW2018s as humanly possible in the shortest amount of time as possible.

    I think companies like Allegorithmic can be more specific with their roadmaps because they are more specialist, but LW have pretty much stated in the aftermath of the darkness that they would now prefer to under-promise and over-deliver, which I think is fair at this time. Also, without speculating about why Rob left, they will want to be very careful who is any replacement before they take any specific long turn.
    Last edited by TheLexx; 12-14-2017 at 06:09 PM.

  10. #10
    I think someone's going to go to other software... Not going to happen... Rob didn't exactly produce one either, so it's a bit rich him making that as a parting shot...

  11. #11
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobian View Post
    I think someone's going to go to other software... Not going to happen... Rob didn't exactly produce one either, so it's a bit rich him making that as a parting shot...
    Can we not criticize someone who isn't here to defend himself, please.
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  12. #12
    NewTek Social Media Chuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spigolo View Post
    I've been a lightwave user for more than 20 years and I've built my professional career mostly thanks to the use of this software.
    In these last years, when the brightness of lightwave started to fade, I've kept on supporting it and defende my choice despite what other people or competitors
    around me thought.
    It was hard to find collaborators that were able to use it, who were willing to learn it etc., but Lightwave always proved to be productive and, like many of us, I've delivered very important projects thanks to it.
    I've always thought it was the best choice for my kind of work.

    But now things are different.

    I do think this last release will be a great boost of productivity for people like me who have a long production experience with Lw (as well as render farm, plugins etc), nevertheless I WILL NOT UPGRADE MY LICENCES UNTIL I GET A CLEAR ROADMAP STATEMENT FROM LIGHTWAVE GROUP. After such a long time of silence we DESERVE IT.

    I've talked with many users and I'm sure that many of them share my opinion. After one and an half year of silence that showed no respect for us, being a loyal user I felt so disappointed that I've started looking for and purchaising alternative softwares.
    We 've made our living thanks to lightwave and changing software is not an easy choice, but respect towards users should be a top priority for any company, expecially in this case, since the Lightwave community is a special one.

    I really hope that many users will follow my choice and force Lightwave group to reveal the guidelines of their future developement plans as well as a predictable timing before upgrading.
    Other companies do it, why do we always have to wait for a new release feeling anxious and with the fear that promises won't be kept?
    If Newtek or lightwave group want to have a future, and keep at least their user base, they owe this to us.

    This is just me talking, not NewTek.

    My perception on the quarter-century of LightWave's existence that I've observed: The exclusive concentration of so many on what is not here in LightWave and how soon what is not here is going to get here has poisoned all the good out of what LightWave 3D actually is at any given moment, for decades. And "so many" doesn't mean just the users; we here at NewTek have had a lot to do with nurturing what was already a strong tendency in the computer and software industry, especially as it intersected with the entertainment industry - make future product a marketing tool for current product. We even managed to totally overwrite a very good v9.6 release with one of those episodes, only to reach a historically* ignominious end for something that actually had a great deal of potential.

    This obsession has poisoned the morale of both the community and of the developers and marketers of the product. It has engendered a bunker mentality in all of these, and I believe will continue to do so for as long as it remains the obsession of so many.

    Testimony to this is that LightWave 3D 2018 has not even shipped and already the big focus and clamor for so many is not about what this new version offers for their workflow and how they can use it, it is instead about "now tell us what is coming next, and next, and next!"

    More than a quarter of a century of continuous development has long since answered the question of "Will LightWave keep moving forward?" It will. I can understand that just knowing there will be progress is not enough for some folks, they want to be sure the product will go in a direction that they particularly want it to go. Trying to satisfy those types of demands in any significant detail and making timetable promises along with it just may in fact, however, be detrimental to best success in those developments, and even more so to the necessary bedrock work to refresh the foundations of the product. Schedule pressures and public feature commitments can reshape development in a lot of ways and not all for the good. And they can push the cool things that having the liberty to think outside of the box can bring, right off of the table.

    I don't think it's the case that the 3D Group could completely emulate the SOP of the video team with respect to the customer base, as there is too much difference between the two industries, but the video team does not pre-announce anything. They don't provide roadmaps of updates to existing products nor do they pre-announce new products. They do pretty regularly drop both bug fixes and minor feature enhancements, they release paid feature upgrades, and they also regularly release entirely new products, such as today's 3Play 3P1 release, our first 3Play model based on an all-IP workflow as are the TriCaster TC1 (released earlier this year) and the NewTek IP Series (released last year).

    Their projects have time to mature and are brought to market when ready for the light of day. They have pressures of course, because making sure that you stay on the cutting edge in a highly competitive environment is not a low-pressure profession. But they don't add the excruciating and artificial pressure of making it all public while still in the egg and making an estimate that no matter how many times you remind folks is an estimate, gets regarded as a promise by some folks, who then feel entitled to disparage not only your competence but your character and ancestry when you run past it.

    I recall talking to a wiser head than my own once about a customer who needed a capability for his video productions that our video production systems did not have at the time, but that I knew was in development. I wondered if I should advise the customer of this. The answer he gave me was no, of course not. If the customer needs a capability right now, and your product doesn't have it, you need to disqualify your product, and let that customer get a product that has what they need now. What's in development can be subject to change for a huge number of reasons, and so, just don't. Don't. Offer what you have now, to those for whom it meets the needs. If you work at innovating a great product each iteration, you're going to have things that people need and can only get from your product, and even back then it was the case that people were building multi-tool video production pipelines. Someone buying a product from the other guy did not mean they wouldn't get around to buying yours as well.

    Giving up customers still sounded like a dicey proposition to me at the time, but I've seen a lot of angst since then that all came down to both NewTek and the LightWave users being so engaged with the roadmap that they completely lost the road.**

    Again, I am sure there needs to be some forward discussion, but does it really need to be so much the only topic that can be discussed as some people seem to think?

    Specifically with respect to announcing roadmaps and time projections, and specifically not about discussing the future of the product in general with the community: I find the idea of not talking about things that you haven't finished yet, vastly appealing. I find the idea of not talking about things that you haven't started yet, absolutely sublime.

    I'm also sure this is just crazy talk from an old fogey, so feel free to ignore it, or to agree with me that I'm clearly full of beans (or worse), but do hit me up for a beer if you happen to be passing through sometime.

    *Well, "historically" for us, that is; nothing in the grand scheme of human history of ignominy, really.

    **"Engaged with the roadmap:" Angst about development progress when there was a pre-announced new version and estimated release date; or angst about a pre-announced update with no date estimate; or angst about there being no announcement yet for a next update for either fixes or features, nor estimated release date. Quite a variety of angst opportunity there when you think about it.
    Last edited by Chuck; 12-14-2017 at 06:25 PM.
    Chuck Baker
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    Software Developer's Dilemma: The better the new feature, the more feature requests it will generate. - C. Baker
    Please note that any statements regarding future product development are forward looking and subject to change without notice.

  13. #13
    Man of many cells. shrox's Avatar
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    How do we "deserve" a roadmap? Do car manufacturers detail their plans for the future? They show us cool concept cars that never go into production. Newtek did how us a concept with CORE, but it just wasn't feasible. I think they decided simply not to do that again.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    Can we not criticize someone who isn't here to defend himself, please.
    Maybe I should put back what I was originally going to put

  15. #15
    Lava Lamp Technician 3D Kiwi's Avatar
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    We don't deserve a roadmap what we do deserve is an explanation as to how things will improve from this point on, Will we have to wait another three years for an update? Who will be overseeing Lightwaves development
    now that Rob is gone, Will the blog be continued and how will they improve on their communication to their users.

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