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Thread: Cel Shading and NPR - What's Possible??

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulhart View Post
    Could someone on the Newtek team please respond with something about the NPR area of development. I know that Rob is gone and Lino, but the trip to Japan did happen, tech was explored and the Japanese anime/animation marketplace is significant, and... There was a 'bullet point' on the release description. So, enough with the "crickets," answer this thread, with some kind of show and tell. Please, it is to your benefit, to promote this area, after all the research and hard work by the development team???!!!
    i’d be surprised if cell shading wasn’t well catered for

  2. #17
    Lino did some videos showing some of the features.
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  3. #18
    Animated Fool paulhart's Avatar
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    I was looking for some guidance on new possibilities of NPR line control with Lightwave 2018, particularly with the cross-fertilization with Japanese developers. I went to Google and entered the following, "lightwave 2018 NPR videos" and guess what I found at the top of the Google listing, my own earlier thread, still with no response from the Newtek team...... Crickets ?? still ?? The software is released, at least someone working with the Japanese developers should have some examples. Any changes to UnReal or other choices to get a more calligraphic, hand-drawn line quality. I fumble with the Nodes, and don't get anything useful??? Anybody else??
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  4. #19
    Registered User 3dbr's Avatar
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    LightWave 3D 2018 New Features Part 1 (CelShading)
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/216543000
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  5. #20
    Animated Fool paulhart's Avatar
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    3dbr, thank you. There were some items in the first video you posted that I found helpful. What I sincerely need, and haven't seen, is a thoughtful exploration of line rendering that looks hand drawn. I want to see thick and thin, tapered, responding to light source, so that the light side is thin and the 'away' side is thicker. I would love to see some thing that accounts for thicker lines in areas of greater occlusion. These are all the aspects that I learned, and use in drawing an anime figure and I would imagine someone has already worked out the nodes and settings to create more of that kind of look. I see from your avatar that you like to 'doodle' so I suspect you can understand. The trip that Rob took to Japan, had to have involved some discussion with the developers, over there, about such nuances of line control. I can't be the only one??
    Can someone from Newtek respond, give examples, set up some Presets for Cel Shading and Line Rendering. This is such a potentially great contribution by Lightwave to the animation community. I love that I can see the line update in the VPR window, but if I don't have any idea how to get the lines I want, it is frustrating!!!
    Last edited by paulhart; 01-09-2018 at 08:13 PM. Reason: Further comments...
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  6. #21
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    paulhart, you're not alone. I'm mostly experimenting with the lines and trying different nodes and setups to try to get the lines that I want. I'll try to post some things this weekend; as that is the only time I have to devout to LW at the moment.
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  7. #22
    LightWave documentation BeeVee's Avatar
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    Have you used the new Surface Shaded tool in the Edges tab, along with the nodal shading available since 2015? I believe these were developed in conjunction with Japanese anime studios (and we have a cel shader from Sublimation Studios in the Shading Model tab, too. I'd love to see some work using those.

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  8. #23
    Animated Fool paulhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeeVee View Post
    Have you used the new Surface Shaded tool in the Edges tab, along with the nodal shading available since 2015? I believe these were developed in conjunction with Japanese anime studios (and we have a cel shader from Sublimation Studios in the Shading Model tab, too. I'd love to see some work using those.

    B
    I will continue my sorely inept muddling with the tools. Yes, there are things to explore and the contributions by the Japanese studios are welcome, but... without examples, presets, videos translated, it becomes a blind shooting at targets. There should be an entire video specifically demonstrating these contributions, with clear directions, node trees, whatever it takes. This is an area that Lightwave can/should dominate, but it seems like some kind of "secret knowledge" of the insiders club.
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  9. #24
    Animated Fool paulhart's Avatar
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    Just to keep this thread alive, in the faint hope that someone with more knowledge than me, (Hint, hint, Newtek??) will provide videos, demos, presets, node trees, settings, anything, on developing quality calligraphic lines, anime style, using the "NEW" available aspects of Lightwave. I am including a simple linetest, with simple objects and lighting. Note that I do have a thinner line on the 'light' side and thicker on the away side. Totally so-so, but I am sure someone else can dazzle us, Please??"
    Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #25
    Animated Fool paulhart's Avatar
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    Sensei, just sent an inquiry regarding new software he may be working on and asked me for a response. Surprise, .... here is what I sent back to him.

    . . . .This would be a welcome addition to the tools for 2018, and I will be interested.
    Since you asked, I would very much like help with "Line Rendering," specifically calligraphic hand-drawn types of lines. I would love to be able to make them "Thick and Thin" based on light source and/or Occlusion, much like I was trained in my MFA drawing classes. The line would be thin on the lit side and thicker on the 'away' side each object or part of a shape. Where there are tight turns of geometry, the lines would tend to also get thicker. A little bit of "noise" or "jitter" and variations in opacity help to make them more convincing as hand-drawn lines. I would then composite the line render over a watercolor like shader effect for the surfaces to complete the look. Hiyao Miyazaki, in "Spirited Away," and other animations are sources of inspiration, as well as Sylvain Chomet in "The Illusionist," and "The Triplets of Belleville." I know that both of these artist used XSI and Maya, as well as hand-drawn backdrops and textures.
    You asked what might be needed, and this is something that I expected to do after the visit to Japan by Rob to visit the studios and developers there.
    None of their shader work, videos, etc. has been translated or made available to the U.S. market yet, such a pity.
    I look forward to whatever response you may have.
    Thank you,

    Paul
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  11. #26
    Lightwave Pimp Skonk's Avatar
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    I quite like the new Cel tools.

    I started building this years ago and did my usual thing of never finishing it. Defo easier to surface using the new Cel functions compared to the stuff available in LW 2015.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    uh wha?

  12. #27
    Animated Fool paulhart's Avatar
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    I also used to be able to use a Gradient function, and set a different texture file as the source for each of the tonal layers, to create a sketch like effect.?
    Here is a simple sphere with the look, as an example, however, when I try to load any of the 'old' files none of the Node Layouts, generate the effect intended, and I appear to have to start over??? A second example with simple objects from that same methodology.
    Being able to generate a sketch effect of mild cross hatching is very useful, but I am having to start all over with 2018.
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  13. #28
    Batman Ninja is LW 2018 (Kamikaze is a LW house)
    YS Plugins are robust and from Kamikaze, Yamato and Sublimation animation houses and they have english interface.
    They have not been updated to 2018 yet.

  14. #29
    Animated Fool paulhart's Avatar
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    Julez, Thank you. I was aware of these resources and for the life of me, cannot understand why Lightwave doesn't help get them translated and made available. The Plugins have been written, it is just English documentation and UI. I am afraid that after Rob left and Lino too, the 'core' of Lightwave isn't paying as much attention to the animation/rendering market, despite the strength of the Japanese and Asia studios. I hope for better, money in hand....;->)
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  15. #30
    Animated Fool paulhart's Avatar
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    Here is a relative recent render, using the Hatching Texture for the steps in the Gradient. I got it to work, similar to 11, and 2015, but with some limitations, as the Shaders are a missing piece of how this was done before. I have started another thread on this which is directed towards my second goal, Light influence variability in line rendering.
    http://forums.newtek.com/showthread....t!!!-Challenge
    Give it a whirl if you feel up to the challenge. I am still awaiting a helpful response from Newtek or closely related people. Maybe something flown in from Japan, Plugins? translated and released?? video demos shared with English.
    I know, such a dreamer....
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Greater consciousness is worth the effort. Be aware.... so sayest the Animated Fool ~ HARTWORKS www.hartworks.net

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