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Thread: Spark it is a fake NDI device. What the reason to buy it?

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    Spark it is a fake NDI device. What the reason to buy it?

    Hello,

    I just bought Spark to bring SDI live stream to my NDI application. Product page indicate that it is real NDI device. But when I got it I was very dissatisfied. Actually it is NOT REAL NDI device. It is just re branded china H.264 encoder device that NOT COMPATIBLE with most NDI devices and 100% not compatible with NDI SDK.
    I use NDI because of low latency video but NDI-HX it is just very OLD H.264 with huge delays. If I want H264 stream then I can buy any H264 or NEW h265 encoder for 1/3 of Spark price. And this device will be compatible with any streamer device/software and it support many protocols (HTTP, RTPS, Multicast and etc). But spark use proprietary protocol that NOT COMPATIBLE with NDI and support just RTSP streaming with modified (not compatible with standard H264 decoder) OLD H264 codec for the x3 price.
    What the reason to buy Spark?

    Dmitry

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    NewTek Engineering ACross's Avatar
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    Dmitry,

    I am obviously disappointed that you have had any problems with our devices however I think that there might be some confusion here. If you have any problems of compatibility let me know, I have personally made sure that Spark works on almost all of the largest NDI applications and we would consider it a bug if there are any with which it does not work. Likewise, if you are seeing "huge delays" then I would consider this a bug and we would look into it as a matter of urgency. We have been clear that NDI|HX works slightly differently from NDI and reflects a different trade-off ... however the quality should be as good (or better) and it should support wireless video.

    I would also highlight that your characterization of the product is incorrect, while we partnered with another company to build it (and almost all electronics are built in China these days ... it is highly customized for NDI.

    Either way around, if you are having any problems you should just shoot me an email and if its a bug then we'll resolve it.

    Andrew

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    Hello Andrew,

    I have tried to chat with your "support" today morning and after 30 minutes he told me that can't find answer on my question (How I can play stream on Linux via NDI Linux SDK) and I have to post my question on forum :-)
    About latency...no way to get low latency with OLD H264 codec. Real NDI codec have as low as 1 frame latency...any H264 codec have at least 10 frames latency. You have to inform about NDH-HX (H264) on the main product page and inform that it is not compatible with real NDI.
    Also H264 required huge CPU power to decode and because of small modifications can't be decoded by hardware like any other stream from any cheap H264 encoder
    Last edited by ddv2005; 10-30-2017 at 11:34 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddv2005 View Post
    ...any H264 codec have at least 10 frames latency. You have to inform about NDH-HX (H264) on the main product page and inform that it is not compatible with real NDI.
    Sorry, this is not correct. While network and other factors will have an impact, I have personally tested NDI|HX with 'single digit' latency on my local network. it's not 'nothing', but I've seen many cases where it could be considered negligible, and even surprisingly close to SDI.

    Quote Originally Posted by ddv2005 View Post
    You have to inform about NDH-HX (H264) on the main product page and inform that it is not compatible with real NDI.
    But that would be a mistatement, since NDI|HX is compatible with any NDI-enabled system that has the HX driver installed. It might be correct to say that HX isn't identical to baseline NDI, but each NDI transmission mode has its own benefits - the principal benefit of HX being its compact size.
    --
    Regards, Steve
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  5. #5
    NewTek Engineering ACross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddv2005 View Post
    How I can play stream on Linux via NDI Linux SDK
    This is not a question that our product support team would normally deal with. Feel free to email the SDK support email which is part of the SDK documentation and we'll be happy to help work this out for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by ddv2005 View Post
    About latency...no way to get low latency with OLD H264 codec. Real NDI codec have as low as 1 frame latency...any H264 codec have at least 10 frames latency.
    With due respect this is simply not correct. While NDI|HX does have slightly higher latency than NDI, it is not 10 frames and there is nothing inherent to H.264 (which we use a customized version of in Spark) that makes it higher latency.

    Quote Originally Posted by ddv2005 View Post
    You have to inform about NDH-HX (H264) on the main product page and inform that it is not compatible with real NDI.
    I respectfully disagree, NDI|HX will work fully with the NDI SDK and if there are applications that it does not support then we would be happy to consider it a bug and fix them. We say clearly that currently HX drivers are provided for Windows and Mac. If Linux users need support we would be happy to help them provide it with their applications.

    Quote Originally Posted by ddv2005 View Post
    Also H264 required huge CPU power to decode and because of small modifications can't be decoded by hardware like any other stream from any cheap H264 encoder
    This is not correct and if you are seeing this then we would be happy to help work out what the problem is. We full support hardware assisted decoding of Spark streams.

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    >I respectfully disagree, NDI|HX will work fully with the NDI SDK and if there are applications that it does not support then we would be happy to consider it a bug and fix them
    :-) Even NewTek SDK examples can't find and receive NDI|HX streams...Could you fix your examples to support NDI|HX :-)

    >We full support hardware assisted decoding of Spark streams.
    No any support on Linux

    Could you find ANY information that Spark produce NDI|HX instead of real NDI on https://www.newtek.com/connect/spark/ ?
    ====
    >Connect Spark works with millions of NDI compatible applications, devices and systems like CombiTech VidBlaster, Livestream Studio, OBS
    ====
    How it can be compatible with OBS if no NDI|HX support for Linux??

    ====
    >NDI output over IP via Ethernet or WiFi
    ====
    Where is NDI (not NDI|HX) output on Spark?

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    NewTek Engineering ACross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddv2005 View Post
    :-) Even NewTek SDK examples can't find and receive NDI|HX streams...Could you fix your examples to support NDI|HX :-)
    The current NDI SDK examples will work with NDI|HX streams if you have the NDI|HX driver installed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ddv2005 View Post
    >We full support hardware assisted decoding of Spark streams.
    No any support on Linux
    If you would like Linux support for NDI|HX please just email the support email listed in the SDK and we would be happy to help.

    Quote Originally Posted by ddv2005 View Post
    How it can be compatible with OBS if no NDI|HX support for Linux??
    OBS is an open source platform application and can be compiled on all manner of devices. We fully support it on Windows and Mac and are happy to work with anyone who needs support on other platforms. Like any open source platforms that can be recompiled on almost any OS it is hard to ensure complete compatibility for a hardware device across every possible platform (e.g. nVidia NVEnc support is not provided in OBS on Linux.)

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    >While NDI|HX does have slightly higher latency than NDI
    I just did latency test between Spark and Window PC directly connected by wires. Real NDI source have latency about 30-40ms. Spark latency more than 400ms. The same receiver, the same network but x10 difference in results just because of NDI|HX

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    NewTek Engineering ACross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddv2005 View Post
    >While NDI|HX does have slightly higher latency than NDI
    I just did latency test between Spark and Window PC directly connected by wires. Real NDI source have latency about 30-40ms. Spark latency more than 400ms. The same receiver, the same network but x10 difference in results just because of NDI|HX
    This does not match what I am seeing at all. Please email me the details of how you did this measurement and we can help work out what the cause of this problem is.

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