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Thread: What will I need to make this happen?

  1. #1
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    What will I need to make this happen?

    At our home basketball games we are squeezed into a small area with 3 cameras(2 for the game, 1 on the clock which is up on a beam out of the way), a mixer and a TriCaster Mini, our play by play guy (also the radio guy) that is tied into us via our mixer and his mixer. We also have a camera on the court that we have wireless video up to our TriCaster for our 3rd camera.
    Our studio is around 300' from our gymnasium and press box.
    What I would like to do would be able to keep our TriCaster in our studio and out of the gym and get all the audio and video to our TriCaster in our studio. All cameras are HDMI. What type of a system does anyone use to make a setup like this work? I know it can be done, I just don't know what to use to make our setup work.
    I would eventually like to add another couple cameras which will require us to use NDI but that will be in the future.
    One problem that I will have is communication though. I have an eartec wireless system that we use for football and it works fine for that but it will not go through walls and won't work. I do have a Clearcom intercom wired system in our studio but I don't know how I would be able to get that to the gym for sure and use a wireless system there so we would not have wires in the way for that.
    Or can anyone steer me to the right company that would be able to help me setup what I need. Thanks.

  2. #2
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    There are plenty of companies that might quote you to come out and do this but in my estimation its pretty simple.

    First off do you have AE? I assume so since you mentioned adding camera via NDI.

    Next thing is to get and actual measurement of cable needed. Take in account if you can find any shortcuts like through a wall back to your studio. If all your runs are less than 300 ft you will have some extra options.

    Next you will want to decide if you want to bring in the cameras through NDI or covert the HDMI or another signal. If you go the NDI route you will need to get your cameras in to some kind of NDI conversion. So NDI connect Pro, or another type of hardware/software. You then should see your cameras connected from the gym in the studio if they are on the same network.

    If you feel doing NDI would take too much work, you can look at buying something to convert the HDMI signal to CAT 5/6 or even Fiber. Sometimes the boxes can get a little glitchy but in a set environment like a gym you should be Ok. Either way it will cost a little but to get your signal converted to NDI or CAT5/6 or fiber.

    On the audio side you should be well within your range with XLR cable. Note that you can send audio and route audio via NDI if you do go that route.

    On the communication end you again should be within your limits to use the Clear Com solution and XLR cable.

    If you go with NDI just know you at some point will have to involve the IT department at the school. Its almost never just plug and play.

    If push comes to shove, just buy another MINI and use one to connect cameras and one for the studio. Sounds cray but once you add all it would take to convert things you could find a MINI for the same price. Just curious though, would your wireless camera signal pick up if the receiver was in the studio?

  3. #3
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    Yes, I do have AE.
    I think it is a little under 300' but I am not sure.
    If I brought all through NDI I would have to get the newtek spark for every camera which would be fairly costly. I think the conversion to to Cat6 may be a cheaper option.
    With the Clearcom unit I am still confused. It is a wired system, how can I get wireless in the gym so there are no cables to have to mess with on the floor. I could use wired in the booth but how can I get signal to the floor camera op headphones wirelessly?
    The last one on two Minis. Where would I place the mini with cameras? I'm not sure on what I would do to make that setup work?
    I don't think the video from the wireless camera signal would go through the walls. Just too many of them.
    Sorry for my ignorance on this subject but I have not done this kind of setup before.

  4. #4
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    I had a bad experience with the HDMI to CAT-6 to HDMI converters from cameras to Mini - they didn't work! I got a black screen in the Mini, so camera was trying to connect, but would not show up. Connecting same HDMI direct to monitor worked perfect, as did HDMI output going to projector using same converters. Just not INTO the Mini.

    I feel that the most reliable solution would be Spark Connect HDMI converters, but yes there is the cost of several of them. You could get an inexpensive network hub and some bulk CAT-6 cable. Connect all cameras to hub, and wire hub to Mini. Your own private video network! No latency, perfect quality.

    You could build your own NDI conversion PC, but just the cost of the Magewell Quad-HDMI card ($900) and Newtek Connect software ($995) is already the same as 4 Spark boxes, without the expensive PC workstation added!

    How would you use another TriCaster? Connect 4 HDMI cameras to first Mini with AE, connect it to network, then second Mini AE in another room receives all 4 cameras via NDI as if connected locally. I have a customer with 7 PTZ cameras physically connected to 2 Mini with AE systems, and 1 Mini switches all 7 cameras. Fun stuff. Of course the second Mini with AE is $8k.

    HDMI converted to SDI can provide a cable run of about 300 feet, but seems like you are right at that limit so may not work, then there is the issue of buying two converters per camera (one for each end) and by the way good HD-SDI cable can run a buck a foot...so no matter how you go about this, not cheap.

    No comments about comms, not my area of wisdom.

    Thanks

    Jeff
    Last edited by JPulera; 10-19-2017 at 02:25 PM.
    Jeff Pulera
    Streaming Broadcast Solutions - Newtek Elite

    TriCasters: Mini with AE, TC1
    Camera: Sony PMW-X70 4K
    Controllers: All variety of XKeys
    PTZ: Newtek NDIHX-PTZ1

  5. #5
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    One of my cams for football in our pressbox is run with HDMI to Cat6 and it works great. I have had some that I tried and they didn't work properly. Some had too much latency. I went with a Geffen product and it has been flawless.

    I need to take some type of class on some of this stuff. There is so much you can do with getting signal into the Mini now that it is almost overwhelming.

  6. #6
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    I'd be interested in the Geffen model number, and what type of camera source (regular camcorder with HDMI?).

    Thanks

    Jeff

  7. #7
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    I have used J-Tech HDMI extender boxes that were recommended to me. I will warm you they dont like to travel though. We have had some that stay in place in buildings and along with the cable it has worked great. We also have some that travel with me and are setup and broken down after each game (also not in a controlled weather environment), those have glitched out on me at times.

    If you get the right one, there should be zero latency. We once were able to run 400ft of Cat6 plus a 100ft HDMI cable from the camera to the box and it worked well. I ordered some special HDMI cable that was extra shielded and round. Good cable makes a difference for sure!

    One thing you can also look in to is the HDMI to fiber options. You could do a conversion on each end or buy some cable like this:
    https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13702

    Slim Run offers a number of pre determined lengths.

    Not the cheapest option but certainly cheaper than buying a 3 NDI Spark boxes or another MINI.

    Here is another thought on your wireless camera. If you move the receiver down to the gym floor will that cut down the distance from the receiver to the control room studio?

    In the long term you should look in to using NDI. Some things like cameras and converters are limited these days but more products are coming out each day.

    One last question on your cameras. Do they output both HDMI and SDI or just HDMI?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPulera View Post
    I'd be interested in the Geffen model number, and what type of camera source (regular camcorder with HDMI?).

    Thanks

    Jeff
    Gefen GTB-HDBT-POL-BLK HDBaseT Extender for HDMI

  9. #9
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    Eartech makes an adapter box to go to a wired system. You can then plug through your clearcom system and put another wireless eartech box in the other room, or just stay wired all the way to the cameras (always preferable if you can)

  10. #10
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    I'll check into that. Thanks.

  11. #11
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    I got a hold of eartec and it looks like they have something that will work.

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