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Thread: I really do lose my patience dear NewTek company

  1. #166
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Not that it will answer your question, but many peeps at Newtek customarily wear multiple hats. Sometimes that's good, otherwise it keeps us hopping.
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  2. #167
    Often Banned Megalodon2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    Sure those are all things a part of marketing. I don't see how it supersedes what I said. What I said, supersedes... it. Any marketing guru would agree if there is uncertainty in a product (the key element of marketing) there is uncertainty in the marketing.

    The more technical a product is, the more the production process takes priority over anything else. Not rocket science.
    There is no "uncertainty in the product." The next version of Lightwave WILL be released. The DETAILS AND STABILITY of the product may still be in flux, but the product itself is CERTAIN. And that is NOT what marketing is concerning itself with - as the definition of marketing states clearly. It's getting people EXCITED about BUYING the product and dealing with customers in a POSITIVE and ENTICING way.

    Your definition of marketing is incorrect. Feel free to disagree, but MARKETING is not as whittled down as you make it to be.
    Dave Williams
    Digital Sorcery Warehouse LLC

  3. #168
    When LW NEXT finally does get released they will need a significant sustained marketing campaign to make up for long and fairly quiet dev cycle since LW 2015 was released.
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  4. #169
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    I don't give out personal contact details on behalf of others, and I doubt Matt does either. I have access to your email address, and I don't bandy it about - that would be unethical. And anyway, there's no need. There are numerous access points on the websites of both divisions. If there aren't any direct marketing contact links, use sales contacts (in the end, marketing's job is driven by the needs of sales, albeit with oversight by senior management).
    Steve, try to keep in mind, this discussion went in this particular direction (this time) because key contact email addresses provided on the site were bouncing (or not yielding responses) -- it isn't actually as easy to grab another (working) email contact to use as you're suggesting.
    Last edited by jwiede; 08-05-2017 at 01:07 PM.
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  5. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon2.0 View Post
    There is no "uncertainty in the product." The next version of Lightwave WILL be released. The DETAILS AND STABILITY of the product may still be in flux, but the product itself is CERTAIN. And that is NOT what marketing is concerning itself with - as the definition of marketing states clearly. It's getting people EXCITED about BUYING the product and dealing with customers in a POSITIVE and ENTICING way.

    Your definition of marketing is incorrect. Feel free to disagree, but MARKETING is not as whittled down as you make it to be.
    I never defined marketing. You did. I don't disagree with that definition. I never felt the need to define it. I think we have all been around long enough to know a thing or two about what marketing is. And it does not take a very high IQ to understand that if you don't have a product, there is nothing to market.

    You are basing your assumption on the idea that there is something to market. I am not. It is just that simple.

    If it is as you say, definite. Then I agree with you. I will step back and be wrong. But I am not going on that assumption at this point.

    You and I have been exposed to the same information over these last years. I just interpret it differently.

    Neither of us know for sure. Unless you have insider info you want to share, I am OK with my version of events.
    Last edited by Surrealist.; 08-05-2017 at 01:20 PM.

  6. #171
    Man of many cells. shrox's Avatar
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    Steve. Yes.
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  7. #172
    Often Banned Megalodon2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    I never defined marketing. You did. I don't disagree with that definition. I never felt the need to define it. I think we have all been around long enough to know a thing or two about what marketing is. And it does not take a very high IQ to understand that if you don't have a product, there is nothing to market.

    You are basing your assumption on the idea that there is something to market. I am not. It is just that simple.

    If it is as you say, definite. Then I agree with you. I will step back and be wrong. But I am not going on that assumption at this point.
    But again, you are NOT CORRECT. There IS a product - it is simply not yet complete. You are completely IGNORING the fact that what you perceive marketing to be is not what marketing truly is. You acknowledge it, but you refuse to accept it.

    But it is not about the product READY TO BE SOLD.

    "Marketing is based on thinking about the business in terms of customer needs and their satisfaction."

    Again.... "Marketing differs from selling..."

    Again.... "Selling concerns itself with the tricks and techniques of getting people to exchange their cash for your product. It is not concerned with the values that the exchange is all about. And it does not, as marketing invariable does, view the entire business process as consisting of a tightly integrated effort to discover, create, arouse and satisfy customer needs."

    The FACT is... marketing - especially in the case of Lightwave - does not NEED THE PRODUCT TO BE READY TO SELL. The blog posts - when they were consistent - were great marketing. But as we have all seen, they have failed.

    Marketing is about getting the customer EXCITED about the product - which (again) does not need the product to be ready to sell.

    And I really don't care if you THINK "we have all been around long enough to know a thing or two about what marketing is" because you obviously do not. It's THINKING you know but confusing selling with marketing. And the fact is, Newtek marketing of Lightwave is abysmal. There essentially is NO marketing.

    You can argue all you want, but fact is you do not truly understand marketing.
    Dave Williams
    Digital Sorcery Warehouse LLC

  8. #173
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  9. #174
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    Megalodon2.0, frustration expressed is possibly because many people are already very excited about the product, but don't know when it will land. Was Surrealist's post really that disagreeable ? Surely it hasn't now descended into being right at all costs ? Apologies to anyone if I'm guilty of that myself.

  10. #175
    Often Banned Megalodon2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TreyX View Post
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    Dave Williams
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  11. #176
    Often Banned Megalodon2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLexx View Post
    Megalodon2.0, frustration expressed is possibly because many people are already very excited about the product, but don't know when it will land. Was Surrealist's post really that disagreeable ? Surely it hasn't now descended into being right at all costs ? Apologies to anyone if I'm guilty of that myself.
    It's not about being "right at all costs," it's about being demonstrably WRONG. I can say the sky is made up of 90% oxygen... that would be wrong. Marketing is not specifically ABOUT the product - it is about reaching the customer and exciting the customer.

    If I told you that Lightwave was the best at character animation... do you think you and everyone else would not argue?

    And yes, many people are excited about the product called Lightwave - but just as many IF NOT MORE are frustrated. And that is due to the exceptionally poor MARKETING by Newtek.

    I have been using LW since '95. In fact I'm using it right now - version 5.5 - because that's the last version my Lscript will work with. Then I will take it into my last upgraded version - which is 11. I WANT Newtek to properly market Lightwave - but they have continued to fail for so many years, I have given up on their marketing. And when someone clearly does not understand the concept... it is quite annoying.
    Dave Williams
    Digital Sorcery Warehouse LLC

  12. #177

  13. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    Yeah but common, R10 was 11 years ago.

    Houdini is an impressive piece of software, but how was it 11 years ago?
    R10 just was the last version I actually bought, not the last I looked at. ;-)
    I check out the demos every now and then but still feel the same about it as in 2000 - not my thing.

    But back on topic:
    Why is everybody so much into how Lightwave is "marketed"? As long as there's nothing new, I don't see much to get anybody excited over?
    - If I would start out new and wouldn't have any money, I'd get into Blender.
    - If I would start out and wanted a piece of the industry, I'd get into Max, Maya, Houdini or C4D.
    No amount of marketing will change that much as long as there isn't some really tasty beef to put on the flyer...
    You can only keep up suspense for a certain time, then you have to either deliver of cool it, otherwise people will go annoyed with you (see this thread).
    All the possible promotions have been done, all the hints have been dropped that can be dropped (I guess).

    So like SBowie wrote: go on with your life, either with or without LW. Second guessing LW3DG doesn't do anybody any good.

    When the next version finally arrives, we'll find out if its worth our while...

    Cheers,

    Tom

  14. #179
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    Thomas, may I ask if your increasing use of GPU rendering with Redshift over Octane is due to compatibility issues or because you prefer the results better with Redshift ?
    Last edited by TheLexx; 08-05-2017 at 02:57 PM.

  15. #180
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    Steve, try to keep in mind, this discussion went in this particular direction (this time) because key contact email addresses provided on the site were bouncing (or not yielding responses) -- it isn't actually as easy to grab another (working) email contact to use as you're suggesting.
    True enough, and please forgive me for not trawling through them myself. If all else fails for bug reporting, use the public bug for posted in the TriCaster area - it's all the same database anyway in the end, and will be redirected as appropriate. But in the present context, i.e., looking for somewhere to complain about the current situation, really, it's a wasted effort, as must surely be clear. Why bother just beating round and round the same bush?
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