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Thread: LW Next Tiger Render

  1. #31
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VermilionCat View Post
    I also prefer Octane rendered image. Looks more natural.
    There are definitely some aspects of the Octane picture which look more "real", IMO as well. Note how the Octane version really conveys the pale translucency of the whiskers' shading, while the LW Next version's whiskers' shading appears more flat and white (esp. seen in lower-right quadrant). The LW Next image is nice, but IMO the fibre shading in the Octane image has more detail and better sense of translucency overall. Also, quite visible in the hair distribution patterns on the top of the snout, LW Next hair's symmetry looks kind of "CG near-perfect" mirrored, where in comparison, the Octane version has visible asymmetry and looks a bit more "real/natural" as a result.

    It's all minor details, to be sure, they're both great renderings. The devil is in details for such photorealism, though, and in the fine details of the hair fibres the Octane image still does seem to beat the LW Next image both in fibre layout/styling as well as the fibre "material" shadings (IMO, anyway).
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  2. #32
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wingzeta View Post
    Looks like the Octane render has a bit more dynamic range, holding a little more detail. The reflections in the eyes are more pronounced for instance. Since octane uses different materials they are not quite the same. The striping is significantly different. It's not just more detailed, the pattern is more broken up, meaning there is actually more detail in the octane map, or it reads fibers very differently. So, is it a different map, or a slightly different procedural, or what? You could break up the striping on the LW surface too, with some texture work. That makes it hard to say whether the differences in apparent detail are because Octane shows more detail, or if the surface has more detail. Both look nice. Obviously you can tweak the render to get them closer together one way or another. The real news seems to be how good fiberFX looks in either case. I wonder what this would look like animated.

    Agreed, I also think the Octane image definitely has more range/"depth" in the shading of the fibres, it's quite obvious when you see the side-by-side. The LW Next image tends towards more "perfect" whites and blacks, where you can clearly see more variation and shading range in the Octane fibres. I'd hope the LW Next could match those aspects, but it does appear the artist for the Octane image used more complex materials/shading as well as more complex texturing/procedurals driving the shading. The Octane artist also seems to have achieved a more realistic variation beyond just algorithmic symmetry in the styling of the fibres, possibly an indication of more complex texturing/procedurals driving the Octane version's fibre styling as well.

    Without being able to assess the actual textures/procedurals, and how they fit into styling and materials/shading, it's difficult to draw any conclusions -- there's no easy way to tell how much of the apparent quality differences stem from the styling/shading/rendering engines themselves versus the engines being given deeper / more complex driving textures/procedurals in Octane vs LW Next.
    Last edited by jwiede; 06-02-2017 at 02:53 AM.
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  3. #33

    Quote Originally Posted by 50one View Post
    The eyes on LW really sell the image anyway.

    The thing is, even if those are bugs/error they really add to the natural look and Octane render looks just too clean and uniform, yes it's nice, but doesn't feel "real".
    i think the opposite.
    Octane is Left, Next is Right.

    the Octane 'mini-bug' is due to the color doesn't start at the root, like it should, thereby, giving a more 'rough' look.
    albeit the 'rough' look is also partly due to the more detailed unbiased render.

    Last edited by erikals; 06-02-2017 at 02:53 AM.
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  4. #34
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    the Octane 'mini-bug' is due to the color doesn't start at the root, like it should, thereby, giving a more 'rough' look.
    I disagree, the snout hair in both clearly shows both sets of fibres have full shading from roots outwards.

    BTW, another area where the Octane image clearly has more range/detail than the LW Next version is in the eyes' iris materials. The more pronounced texturing of the nose skin is another such example (note how both iris and nose skin have high-frequency and low-frequency patterning evident in the Octane texturing, suggesting more layers of textures/procedurals were used). However, again, without looking at precisely how each engine's materials are being driven, it is difficult to isolate whether any is due to engine limitations, much more likely the Octane version simply had more detail in engine inputs (texturing/procedurals).

    Whatever the cause, the Octane rendering has significantly more detail in numerous areas/aspects compared to the LW Next rendering.
    Last edited by jwiede; 06-02-2017 at 03:16 AM.
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  5. #35
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    I still prefer LWNext's one, it makes me think about a real film footage.
    English is not my native language so please be patient.

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  6. #36
    www.Digitawn.co.uk rustythe1's Avatar
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    yes, to me it looks like the octane one just came out of the water (maybe he is "tiger in the wild") and the LW one just looks like one you want to cuddle (maybe he is "tiger in the zoo") the octane one to me seems to maybe have a more random length of hair which shifts the patterns up and down and also why I think it has a more sticky out matted effect, where as the LWN one is much more combed and separated allowing the pattern to show through much better, its very evident just above the mouth, the octane one has completely lost the stripes from the underline control image, in fact I would go as far as saying there are major placement errors around that area, maybe the hairs are not respecting the poly normal or smoothed normal?
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  7. #37

    yeah, some disagreements here, though looks like we all agree LightWave Next FiberFX is looking quite good

    for comparison, Life of Pi >


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  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by creacon View Post
    4 cards? That would be the equivalent of 2 Titan Xp's, more or less, right?
    I'm not sure about Octane. XP can be more than twice as fast as Black, but in multirendering it is only 64% faster.



    I think you get the expected result from each renderer. The Octane one looks more unbiased and the LW one looks more art-directed.

  9. #39
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    The difference in texturing really does make it hard to say, as I know given the current version of LW, I could tweak things to bring out the iris detail out, or break up stripes. Not to say it would look nearly as good, just that the LW PBR materials need a little tweaking to offer a fully equivalent shot. That way we could really look at render alone, without having to factor in texturing artistry.

    Of course, let's not lose sight of the fact that this is a really great looking render "out of the box" in LW. Comparing it to a "deluxe" third party GPU render solution like Octane, on equal terms really shouldn't be the point. It is enough to say "Look at this, with a bit more time, this can give a result, that is very much in the ballpark of high end render solutions, and it is right out of the box". It should be a calling card feature for LW. As long as it is CPU only, Octane will still be the choice for speed, and perhaps a bump in fidelity. But for the majority of users, this new render looks like a big jump in quality. I hope we get to see more soon.

  10. #40
    creacon
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    Does anybody know if Octane uses double precision for rendering?

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  11. #41

    for the majority of users, this new render looks like a big jump in quality. I hope we get to see more soon.
    Absolutely. just looking at the Life of Pi reference (most likely a biased render) we can see how close the Next render is. Not bad LWG, not bad at all.
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  12. #42
    www.Digitawn.co.uk rustythe1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wingzeta View Post
    The difference in texturing really does make it hard to say, as I know given the current version of LW, I could tweak things to bring out the iris detail out, or break up stripes. Not to say it would look nearly as good, just that the LW PBR materials need a little tweaking to offer a fully equivalent shot. That way we could really look at render alone, without having to factor in texturing artistry.

    Of course, let's not lose sight of the fact that this is a really great looking render "out of the box" in LW. Comparing it to a "deluxe" third party GPU render solution like Octane, on equal terms really shouldn't be the point. It is enough to say "Look at this, with a bit more time, this can give a result, that is very much in the ballpark of high end render solutions, and it is right out of the box". It should be a calling card feature for LW. As long as it is CPU only, Octane will still be the choice for speed, and perhaps a bump in fidelity. But for the majority of users, this new render looks like a big jump in quality. I hope we get to see more soon.
    I think lino stated it wasn't PBR and was ray MC render on the FB page
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  13. #43
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    So, for rendering times we appear to be on the verge of another shake-up in CPU tech. Intel has announced an 18 core i9 chip, and AMD has the upcoming Threadripper of 16 core 32 threads. Would a small render farm of half a dozen such chips turbo charge CPU rendering for LW Next compared to Octane on a decent GPU ?

    I'm very impressed at the tigers, and prefer LW Next version, though it seems to be mostly a difference in black levels to my eye. Life of Pi version is way too orange.

  14. #44
    TD/Animator lino.grandi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustythe1 View Post
    I think lino stated it wasn't PBR and was ray MC render on the FB page
    Using MC doesn't exclude PBR!
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  15. #45
    www.Digitawn.co.uk rustythe1's Avatar
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    yea I wasn't sure after I wrote it that the statement implied that after a second look, but ohhhh the torture of not being able to try it ourselves!!!
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