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Thread: Weird blue stripe on component input?

  1. #1
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    Question Weird blue stripe on component input?

    I had a video camera connected to my TriCaster 40 via component cables to input 4. The video looked fine, but while turning the camera off, I noticed a weird blue band in the picture:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I connected the camera to inputs 1-3, and the band didn't appear. Curious, I took an HDMI grab of the screen with a separate capture card, then sent the grabbed frame from my VT[5]. When sent from VT, the blue band shows up on all of the TriCaster's inputs:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Bars seem to look fine, albeit with a bit of color variation, mostly in the blue square in the bottom left. Input 1:
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    Input 4:
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    And regular video from the camera seems to be fine. Input 1:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Input 4:
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    Meanwhile, if I send the HDMI grab from the TriCaster to VT, there's no blue band:
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    Is there something weird about the yellow bang in that screen, or is there something wrong with my TriCaster?

    EDIT: Here's the HDMI frame grab:
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    Last edited by Kevin Brice; 05-23-2017 at 11:54 PM. Reason: Forgot to attach original HDMI frame

  2. #2
    LiveSet Making Machine joseburgos's Avatar
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    Assuming you are using the same cables and camera for your troubleshooting, I would say something is wrong with your TriCaster input 4 so please contact NewTek support
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  3. #3
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    I would also check that the yellow color in the image is 'legal' (both the yellow and the red look oversaturated to my eye), and that you don't have any proc amp settings applied to input 4.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    I would also check that the yellow color in the image is 'legal' (both the yellow and the red look oversaturated to my eye), and that you don't have any proc amp settings applied to input 4.
    What's the best way to check if the colors are legal? When I sent the image from VT, I set it to clamp to legal colors hoping that would do the trick, but from VT, the blue stripe showed up on all inputs. I was using a brand-new 480i session on the TriCaster, so there shouldn't have been any proc amp settings enabled.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by joseburgos View Post
    Assuming you are using the same cables and camera for your troubleshooting, I would say something is wrong with your TriCaster input 4 so please contact NewTek support
    Yup, same camera and cables. I still can't make sense of why the stripe also shows up on the other inputs coming from VT, but only on input 4 from the camera, though I did have to use different cables to connect VT and the TriCaster. (The camera has a proprietary component jack.). But again, no blue stripe if I reversed those same cables and went from the TriCaster into VT instead.

  6. #6
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    Also, I'm apprehensive about mailing this in for service saying "Everything looks fine except when this one screen I never actually want sent out shows up" - it'd be nice to have a more solid repro.

  7. #7
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Brice View Post
    When I sent the image from VT, I set it to clamp to legal colors hoping that would do the trick, but from VT, the blue stripe showed up on all inputs.
    You wrote, "I took an HDMI grab of the screen with a separate capture card, then sent the grabbed frame from my VT[5]. When sent from VT, the blue band shows up on all of the TriCaster's inputs".

    Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it reads to me like you grabbed an image of the screen showing the blue band, then sent that back from VT[5] to TriCaster. If that's correct, why wouldn't the blue band, which is actually embedded in the source image now, show up on all TC inputs?

    I'm not sure what others use to check legal colors, but looking at the pixel values of your yellow and red in a paint app, and both are highly saturated. I'd expect this to show up on your TC's vectorscope, but some TriCasters have a "Show Illegal" option in the viewport context menu under Overlays (not sure about 40 off the top of my head, sorry).
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    You wrote, "I took an HDMI grab of the screen with a separate capture card, then sent the grabbed frame from my VT[5]. When sent from VT, the blue band shows up on all of the TriCaster's inputs".

    Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it reads to me like you grabbed an image of the screen showing the blue band, then sent that back from VT[5] to TriCaster. If that's correct, why wouldn't the blue band, which is actually embedded in the source image now, show up on all TC inputs?

    I'm not sure what others use to check legal colors, but looking at the pixel values of your yellow and red in a paint app, and both are highly saturated. I'd expect this to show up on your TC's vectorscope, but some TriCasters have a "Show Illegal" option in the viewport context menu under Overlays (not sure about 40 off the top of my head, sorry).
    Ah, yeah, sorry - that was ambiguous. I meant I took the camera, plugged it into the HDMI capture device directly, and used that to take a clean frame grab with no blue stripe. It's the last image attached to my original post.

    If the colors are illegal, does that mean all bets are off about what shows up and the blue stripe could be expected?

  9. #9
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Brice View Post
    I meant I took the camera, plugged it into the HDMI capture device directly, and used that ...
    Aah, thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Brice View Post
    If the colors are illegal, does that mean all bets are off about what shows up and the blue stripe could be expected?
    I think that's quite likely. I'm attaching a version of your image that I ran through a 'make legal' filter. Try this and see what happens.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    I'm attaching a version of your image that I ran through a 'make legal' filter. Try this and see what happens.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Still a blue stripe.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I tried turning on "Illegal" in VT Vision, and nothing showed up, either for the original or for the filtered version. The bang's yellow background gets marked for both if I choose zebra.

    EDIT: Could something else be off given the black levels from VT don't seem to match either?

  11. #11
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    I though it was still a little hot after I ran it through the filter, just eyeballing the RGB values. Maybe try this one, which I knocked back a little more aggressively.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    I though it was still a little hot after I ran it through the filter, just eyeballing the RGB values. Maybe try this one, which I knocked back a little more aggressively.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	legal2.png 
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    Unfortunately, the blue line remains, albeit fainter. Based on VT's color picker, all of the variations of this yellow bang have had video legal shades of yellow. I'm increasingly getting the feeling there's simply a hardware problem with this TriCaster, but I still feel like I don't have enough of an understanding of how the underlying signal works to be sure.

    I just spent the last bit playing around with lines in ToasterCG while outputting to the TriCaster. The distortion seems to be most prominent when:
    1. There's a horizontal line
    2. The line has a non-negligible amount of green in it


    The distortion band changes color based on what other colors are mixed with green.

    Here's a simple thin line with an RGB value of 0, 255, 0:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I don't see anything hitting any extremes in the YUV scope, but I admittedly don't really understand what I'm looking at:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    With Program Out going to my AVerMedia LGX over component, it looks great. But here's what the TriCaster renders:
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    If I reduce the green all the way down to 108, there's still pronounced distortion:
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    The angle of the line seems to matter, which might explain why the distortion isn't readily visible with normal camera output. Here's two horizontal lines, each with their own clear distortion:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    And here's the bottom line rotated. There's still some discoloration by the rotated line, but it's much more subtle:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Meanwhile, with no green, there's no distortion:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Does anyone else happen to have a setup where they could readily try throwing one of these demo PNGs over to their TriCaster over component?

  13. #13
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    Circling back on this, I endrf up sending my TC40 in to NewTek since it had a network card problem anyway. It turns out all the TC40s currently exhibit this behavior with the stripe, so a bug has been opened to track the issue. Seeing as it seemingly hasn't been noticed or reported before, it seems to confirm this is quite the corner case that doesn't actually come up in real productions. Thanks!

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