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Thread: Instant Replay and Keying

  1. #16
    Are We There Yet? bradl's Avatar
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    That is how the Keyer works. The Key Source (hole cutter) is selected on the (upper) Key Bus and the Key Fill is selected on the Preview bus.

    The Keyer is different than the DSK. I noticed you have you DSK 'On' but it is not doing anything and is not related at all to the way you are keying your Super.

    What you need to do is get your Key-able material to run through your DSK. I suggested maybe using Firewire input looping through AURA, but on second thought, the DSK source needs alpha (32-bit file) to key properly. It looks like to do this internally in VT3, you will have to created your titles with Alpha (CG module, Photoshop, etc), perhaps PNG's, and cue them up in a DDR. There is a tutorial that describes the best way to do this for a live event, and in fact it is based on keying song lyrics during a service. See "VT | CG Pages In a Live Switch"

    If this method does not suite you, you may consider a hardware DSK downstream of VT3.
    Brad L.

  2. #17
    It looks like your keying your new camera thur the luma key of the text
    Don L. McCoy
    -Area51-

  3. #18
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Without re-reading all that went before, I'm not clear on why either Aura or the CG can't do what you want simply by serving as a CG buffer for the DSK. The DSK would need to be faded up and down manually, and the text slides advanced manually by the operator, but it works fine that way.
    Last edited by SBowie; 12-25-2003 at 04:40 PM.
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  4. #19
    Hey Steve
    Merry Christmas to you and to all on this site
    Don L. McCoy
    -Area51-

  5. #20
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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  6. #21
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    Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the reason that you are wanting to Key from a seperate source (another computer) is that you bought the really cool program called "EASY WORSHIP" and how cool that would be to just key the word from directly from "Easy Worship"


    I agree it would really take VT3 to a whole new playing field to be able to use an outside source to run external programs directly into the VT3 and switch and Key that source in a live setting.

    I know that with some thought and planning it must be possible if not now then maybe in the near future.

    Newtek we would really like to be abel to key Graphics from an External Computer.

    Those of us who are doing a lot of live production would love this feature.
    this way the guy or gal running the VT3 and the RS8 Switcher would have the job of doing camera switching and prerecorded inserts with the DDRs while a person can be typing and doing on the spot text type stuff during live production.

    Just a Thought.

    But I do understand why you are trying to accomplish this task the way you are "EASY WORSHIP" is a really great progam with a lot of neat capabilities.


    Daren

  7. #22
    Thanks for the help
    “I intend to live forever, or die trying.”
    Groucho Marx

  8. #23
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    Sadly enough it says in the manual that you can't key from an outside source. I bought the Toaster thinking that you could (I thought I asked that question and received a positive answer???), but I can't, so I'm kind of stuck. Our events are extremely key intensive, much like your situation. It is a full-time job for one person to run the DSK alone. This is extremely hard, even with the RS-8, to share the computer that VT3 is housed in.

    Oh well, just another request for Newtek...

    Does anyone have any suggestions on another Hardware DSK that would be able to handle multiple pages and give great flexiblity to skip around inside the show at will?

  9. #24
    2005 NewTek Demo Guru
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    Hey jeremy092288

    When you are using a Key (it doesn't matter if it is a Chroma or Luma Key) you can't have transitions underneath the Key. However, you can have cuts. If your key bus and preview bus are both on the input from "easy worship" and you've set-up the luma key, you can still cut between cameras underneath the key just by selecting different cameras on the Main bus. Unfortunately, there is no way right now to have a Chroma/Luma key active and have transitions underneath the Key. What Bradl suggested is the way to go. If graphics are placed on the DSK, transitions can be used under the DSK. However, there is no way to bring the output of your "easy worship" in on the DSK. You will need to create the graphics, load them into a DDR and then use the DSK. Hope this helps.
    Jonathan Crowe
    ETV Engineer
    www.etvhuntsville.com

  10. #25
    2005 NewTek Demo Guru
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    Hey jeremy092288

    When you are using a Key (it doesn't matter if it is a Chroma or Luma Key) you can't have transitions underneath the Key. However, you can have cuts. If your key bus and preview bus are both on the input from "easy worship" and you've set-up the luma key, you can still cut between cameras underneath the key just by selecting different cameras on the Main bus. Unfortunately, there is no way right now to have a Chroma/Luma key active and have transitions underneath the Key. What Bradl suggested is the way to go. If graphics are placed on the DSK, transitions can be used under the DSK. However, there is no way to bring the output of your "easy worship" in on the DSK. You will need to create the graphics, load them into a DDR and then use the DSK. Hope this helps.
    Jonathan Crowe
    ETV Engineer
    www.etvhuntsville.com

  11. #26
    I know I can use cuts but this is the wierd thing. I am using a scan converter to get my signal to RCA so I can put it into the toaster (I don't think there is a way to input VGA/RGB is there?) and whenever I cut between the two cameras it looks bad. Really bad. It is like the toaster is having to make the signal right in some way. After I click it a second later it looks fine but there is a whole second there of just blackness and some wierd green vertical lines and some yellow horizontal lines.
    “I intend to live forever, or die trying.”
    Groucho Marx

  12. #27
    Does anyone have any suggestions on another Hardware DSK that would be able to handle multiple pages and give great flexiblity to skip around inside the show at will?
    I would like to know the answer to that question too.
    “I intend to live forever, or die trying.”
    Groucho Marx

  13. #28
    Without re-reading all that went before, I'm not clear on why either Aura or the CG can't do what you want simply by serving as a CG buffer for the DSK. The DSK would need to be faded up and down manually, and the text slides advanced manually by the operator, but it works fine that way.
    Yes it would work fine that way except that I would have to operate the DSK's and the two cameras and tell my camera operators what to do and also think about where I am going for lunch..........Wendy's? Anyway it is just easier to have another operator control the Lyrics on screen. Besides it is harder to create all of the CG pages they take longer because it does not autoformat them the way EasyWorship does. I know I am kind of "Hooked" on this program but if you guys did what I did at A church service you would understand why.

    Thanks!
    “I intend to live forever, or die trying.”
    Groucho Marx

  14. #29
    NewTek System Integrator PIZAZZ's Avatar
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    Jeremy,

    From your discription about what is glitching, I believe the VT system is searching for and having to recreate the video sync on the sources.

    First off tell us what exactly you are using for inputs (camera type) and exactly what connectors on the SX8. Composite, YC, Component.

    Another question for you would be, How are you cutting between cameras under the Key. Are you using the Enter Key or onscreen Take button???? That insures the video from the preview buss and the program buss are in sync. If you are just mouse clicking from input to input on the Program Out buss then there are sometimes glitches because the VT system has to re-time the signal. IF you are using the Enter key the two sources should already be in sync thus producing no glitch.

    Hope this helps some.

    Please contact me directly if I can be of further assistance. I will also send you and email with this same info in it.
    Jef Kethley
    PIZAZZ
    www.pizazz.com

    Using:
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    Tactical Fiber/converters, SDI2NDI converters, NDI-Viewfinder, and NDI2HDMI

  15. #30
    I am using Sony DSR PD-150 Cameras running them into the SX-8 via composite. I am using the click method only because there is no other method to use. You see if I used the take then my key would be all messed up and key backwards. As you can notice by the picture that I posted....... (The first one)



    I have to have the two inputs locked in order to have a good key. I guess I could use the F2 button to switch the mains but it seems like I may have tried that. My biggest problem is that I didn’t know what the camera operator was giving me to make sure it was a good shot. I fixed this problem by buying 4 LCD monitors. I think that many of my problems would be fixed if I could take a VGA signal and put it into the SX-8 without having to go through a scan converter. I will try it using the F* keys this Sunday to see if my problem goes away
    “I intend to live forever, or die trying.”
    Groucho Marx

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