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Thread: Deep Rising Fx: Potential fluid simulator

  1. #856

    yep, just thinking of alternative ways for some wavers to getting the Full version.

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  2. #857
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkChief View Post
    Well I'm beginning to believe the laws of supply and demand do not work in this particular market. I believe the low prices are what kill a lot of plugins / niche software. What I see is a that sales are ranged by a big spread. Lower prices attract new customers, but don't necessarily create recurring sales. Evidence is showing that Its better to have a few good paying customers, who are comfortable with the higher price, they also seem to be the more loyal, and are more likely to upgrade. Just my thoughts and experiences so far.

    Combining subscription and perpetual licenses sounds like something worth trying.
    I think that the lack of eye candy is a very big contributing factor of lower sales. Apart from that, there are plenty of alternatives out there like Blender's native and of course FLIP FLuids. Max has built in fluids as well as Houdini. Many (bigger) studios probably have at least one of those tools in their arsenal. Lightwave artist thend to be the smaller (oneman) studios, I think. According to BlenderMarket FLIP Fluids have over 4500 sales. And that's for a package that already has some kind of fluid simulation.

    If you look at the FLIP Fluids demo's, they are quite amazing! The quality of the output is very high. No I have no idea if Deep Rising can match that to be honest? I do have a license of Deep Rising (not 3.0) but never actually used it yet, I just wanted at least 1 fluid simulator within LW as I don't really want to switch around Blender all the time (call me lazy). There are some demo's of Deep Rising (that you made I assume) but they are not to the standards of the FLIP Fluid ones (or Realflow Houdini, etc). If you could match that, I would think that sales will dramatically improve. People don't want to buy if they are not convinced of a certain possible(!) output. I was really close of upgrading but spend my money on an upgrade of LWCAD instead, it just made more business sense in my situation. However, I'm one of those suckers who are easily persuaded into buying if I see awesome eye candy of something.... or integrate fire & smoke, that'll certainly raise my pulse!

    What you could do is to make a version available that has an expiry date and do a contest to make some animations to a certain standard and the winner get a free copy of the latest version. In the meantime, you make sure you own all the animations and source files of the submitted material (because that would be in the competition rules) and there you go.small investment for you to have an X number of willing artists to make magic :-)

    Anyway, keep on developing, I think it's amazing what you (I assume your by yourself) have already achieved!

    Some inspiration that people like to see:


    Other video's:
    More FLIP Fluids
    Manta Flow

  3. #858
    Registered User darkChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peebeearr View Post
    I think that the lack of eye candy is a very big contributing factor of lower sales. Apart from that, there are plenty of alternatives out there like Blender's native and of course FLIP FLuids. Max has built in fluids as well as Houdini. Many (bigger) studios probably have at least one of those tools in their arsenal. Lightwave artist thend to be the smaller (oneman) studios, I think. According to BlenderMarket FLIP Fluids have over 4500 sales. And that's for a package that already has some kind of fluid simulation.

    If you look at the FLIP Fluids demo's, they are quite amazing! The quality of the output is very high. No I have no idea if Deep Rising can match that to be honest? I do have a license of Deep Rising (not 3.0) but never actually used it yet, I just wanted at least 1 fluid simulator within LW as I don't really want to switch around Blender all the time (call me lazy). There are some demo's of Deep Rising (that you made I assume) but they are not to the standards of the FLIP Fluid ones (or Realflow Houdini, etc). If you could match that, I would think that sales will dramatically improve. People don't want to buy if they are not convinced of a certain possible(!) output. I was really close of upgrading but spend my money on an upgrade of LWCAD instead, it just made more business sense in my situation. However, I'm one of those suckers who are easily persuaded into buying if I see awesome eye candy of something.... or integrate fire & smoke, that'll certainly raise my pulse!

    What you could do is to make a version available that has an expiry date and do a contest to make some animations to a certain standard and the winner get a free copy of the latest version. In the meantime, you make sure you own all the animations and source files of the submitted material (because that would be in the competition rules) and there you go.small investment for you to have an X number of willing artists to make magic :-)

    Anyway, keep on developing, I think it's amazing what you (I assume your by yourself) have already achieved!
    Thanks for the feedback it is good to hear what people think, especially existing customers. The FLIP Fluids addons reels do look very pretty, and I guess my reels could be improved. It would be nice to have someone dedicated to the artist side on my end who knows what they are doing when it comes to artist side of things (like what the FLIP fluids developer has done with his partner). Anyway I promise to (attempt at least) to improve the presentation of my showcase works. Yes the simulation space is getting crowded, even ZBrush is getting in. Still would be thrilled to even reach half FLIP Fluids sales.

    I am really hoping people start producing some work with it, or share what they are already doing. A competition could be a good idea, would need some judges I guess, will think about it.

    I do believe Deep Rising can do most of what has been shown, especially with the new integrated SplishSplash solver for high viscosity stuff.
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  4. #859

    yepsi pepzi, a smart move.

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  5. #860
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkChief View Post
    ... Still would be thrilled to even reach half FLIP Fluids sales.

    ....
    I think the price in combination of the eye candy is the major contributor to the sales. $79 and the (illusion) that everyone can create those nice looking fluids just sells!
    A large user base also helps though ;-)

  6. #861
    I went back and forth many times trying to decide whether or not to buy Deep Rising before I finally did get it when I had a useable discount. The lack of real world usage examples still leaves me puzzled as to whether the user base is just very small or whether it is actually capable of producing the kinds of results shown with all the other packages. Admittedly I have't had time to jump in to learn the program myself,. but I think seeing examples other than simple spouts, spinning emitters, or wave boxes would help sales a lot. We need examples that show the true potential of the plugin. Whether that means teaming up with an artist to produce the content or finding a studio that already uses it and negotiating rights to show what they did and how, any exposure is sure to help. Maybe make a deal with Kat at Liberty3D to produce some kick-*** advanced scene tutorials? I'd definitely buy any tutorials that showed that kind of stuff no matter who produced them.

    Erich

  7. #862
    Registered User darkChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELinder View Post
    The lack of real world usage examples still leaves me puzzled as to whether the user base is just very small or whether it is actually capable of producing the kinds of results shown with all the other packages....
    The only people who can make the final decision on whether Deep Rising is actually capable are the users. So people shouldn't hesitate sharing, otherwise it is like the chicken and the egg situation, what comes first. I believe it is more than capable, but if not, people should let me know so it develops in the right direction. As for customers, I wouldn't complain if every body upgraded at least once a year But that is not realistic, so I am building other products in and outside the community. I am interested in building something sustainable.

    I think Liberty3D may or may not do something, I know they already showed interest, and they did say they would make some sort of training available during the last group-buy. They do ask for features and fixes.

    Maybe Ryan Roye could make a follow up to his first Deep Rising Fx review posted below, a lot has changed since then.

    Other users on Youtube:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlAkWmDfu2U
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI2wUw-KObQ
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt4mBAx9lbE

    Last edited by darkChief; 09-02-2020 at 02:45 PM.
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  8. #863
    Registered User darkChief's Avatar
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    I have been asked by a few people if I will be discontinuing Deep Rising Development, because I am developing Deep FX Studio. The answer is no, I will continue supporting Lightwave. I may even release more plugins. Deep Rising FX is unique to Lightwave, I was planning on integrating it into Deep Fx Studio, but I quickly discovered it is too Lightwave focused to port, so Studio will have a different but similar solver, and it will not match Deep Rising in features because Deep FX Studio isn't focused on fluids. Deep FX Studio isn't targeting Lightwave, I need to expand, and this is the best way.

    At some point there will be a bridge between Lightwave and Deep FX Studio.

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  9. #864
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    I think that is a good direction. After that it's also up to users to make suggestions for improvements and show off their creations.

    Besides, do you have time to look for snow?

    Right now I don't have the use of fluids but I would see in the coming weeks to take time to create scenes to share. I am persuaded that an exchange on examples will benefit everyone, me first

  10. #865
    Registered User darkChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areyos Alektor View Post

    Besides, do you have time to look for snow?
    Thanks for the input. Still looking at the paper.
    Last edited by darkChief; 09-26-2020 at 03:04 PM.
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  11. #866
    Registered User darkChief's Avatar
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    There's been lots of doom and gloom. I hope LW carries on. Came across and old rendering, don't know if I already posted it. I was going to re render it, but misplaced the files.

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  12. #867

    I hope LW carries on.
    me too, but many lights have been turned off.

    again, try to make Kat (Kelly Myers) to render a huge water simulation, might spawn some more sales.
    i'm pretty sure Kat has the resources.

    have a good weekend,

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  13. #868
    Super Member JohnMarchant's Avatar
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    Funny i was saying the same thing to LightArchitect about Khaos for Blender. It's very good for setting up explosions and stuff. There are loads of tutorials around but the plugin does not come with any simple content.

    Content helps to sell things and especially complex stuff like Deep Rising, Khaos, Turbulance and such which take some time to set up, just some simple scenes with a bit of wow factor goes a long way.
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  14. #869
    Registered User darkChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMarchant View Post
    Funny i was saying the same thing to LightArchitect about Khaos for Blender. It's very good for setting up explosions and stuff. There are loads of tutorials around but the plugin does not come with any simple content.

    Content helps to sell things and especially complex stuff like Deep Rising, Khaos, Turbulance and such which take some time to set up, just some simple scenes with a bit of wow factor goes a long way.
    Thanks for the advice. I did include a completely new set of examples in the latest version, essentially whats in the release reel. Will see if I can come up with something more eye catching in the future that I can share.

    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post

    me too, but many lights have been turned off.
    Maybe there is hope, did a little research and found out that Lightwave should have at least 1000+ users in the cooperate space. Who probably have more than one license. They don't register because they probably have a purchasing process, just my guess any way. Business's range all the way from agriculture to toy making. Surprisingly Modo has roughly same numbers. So that doesn't count the private users, like you and me.

    I don't want to lean too much on Kat, he has already done so much, and I think we are going in different directions, so different priorities. v4.0 won't be coming out anytime soon, but there will be free updates next year.

    If people are interested in supporting me outside the LW community, they should also have a look at Deep FX Studio.

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  15. #870
    Super Member JohnMarchant's Avatar
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    Thanks for that DarkChief, i was not specifically talking about Deep Rising as i know you provide very good content. Fluid sims are complex and take time to set up and of course sim so anything you can do to help with that's good. I would also say where possible provide scenes for the videos you make with sim times and such then people can compare with their setups and hardware.
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