Page 82 of 141 FirstFirst ... 3272808182838492132 ... LastLast
Results 1,216 to 1,230 of 2107

Thread: Come on LWG3D, show us some nuggets!

  1. #1216
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    6,770
    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    Modo 10.2 also has caching now too. Seems like when you are locked in to a certain way of handling mesh there is no other way.
    Actually, generalized infrastructure caching, as in MODO, Maya, C4D, etc. is inherently more efficient / less power-hungry, because it cuts down on needless regeneration of data when the "input variables" haven't changed. Continuously recalculating deformations, dynamics, particles, etc. when the inputs aren't changing is wasteful. As there are users who run 3D on laptops, there are power-management benefits (obviously) to avoiding needless calculation when possible as well.

    The key is that all those packages support comprehensive low-level infrastructure services for change-/event-tracking notifications, and so they can easily build highly-reusable, generalized caching infrastructure based on those notifications. LWSDK desperately needs similar functionality (hence my harping about need for modern, low-level GUI & _event-tracking_, the two are tightly-coupled in D&I), particularly in Layout (which, btw, is also a big part of why Layout's "undo" support is so limited/spotty).

    Where similar functionality exists in LW today, the implementations are feature-/subsystem-local instead of a single, reusable infrastructure implementation (and thus also aren't a viable basis for reusable, infrastructure-level caching support). This stuff is all quite obvious in the LWSDK reliance on polling/active acquisition of certain types of data, instead of an event-driven approach (which tells a great deal about underlying implementation, confirmed through debugging).
    Last edited by jwiede; 12-31-2016 at 06:04 PM.
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2019.1.4 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),64GB RAM, NV 980ti

  2. #1217
    So translated to plain English, if I have all of that right, you are talking about caching already simulated or animated assets. Whereas we still need better viewport performance for iteration/interaction and thus speeds that represent the final real time effect/animation. And in some cases, simply scrolling around the scene and setting up cameras. By the way here is the Maya solution:

    http://area.autodesk.com/getmaya

    I guess the only alternative to better geo handling is LOD or cache. But cache is limited in use.

  3. #1218
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    11,399
    I don't have modo 10.x loaded on my computer. I wonder if I could cache my "rig-geo" for playback (which looks really easy now) and then revert it back to a editable state and continue setting keys on the rig. Anyway, that seems to be the fastest way to get nice playback and still work on the animations themselves (that is if the cache baking doesn't take too long, that's the main question I think). Granted you can always reload the original scene to get your rig edit-ability back, but again, how long will it take to load your scene and other questions arise I'm sure.
    All that is powerful or long standing is first conceived in the imagination; supported by the hope of possibility and then made manifest in our commitment of our current physical reality.

  4. #1219
    Yeah interesting question. I had a play with it and made a video:


  5. #1220
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    11,399
    Nice! Thanks for the video Richard. That's the workflow I was kinda hoping for caching alone. Of course we would have to test with an actual rig too. Looks like a really nice feature, but I agree super fast viewport calculations are invaluable as well. Same as with progressive rendering and any tool that is near real time interactive.
    Last edited by jasonwestmas; 01-01-2017 at 02:50 PM.
    All that is powerful or long standing is first conceived in the imagination; supported by the hope of possibility and then made manifest in our commitment of our current physical reality.

  6. #1221
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    6,770
    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    I guess the only alternative to better geo handling is LOD or cache. But cache is limited in use.
    The best way to think about caching is that it is mostly about saving needless calculation. It's worth doing because it benefits more than just performance, but won't replace actual performance tuning in sensitive code regions.

    For geometry performance, among (if not the) most dominant performance factors are efficiency of data structure used when performing very specific kinds of lookups (f.e. nearest-neighbor, and vector-intersection-checking), as well as efficiency to gather/iterate all entities within a given spatial region. BVHs, BSP trees, octrees, and k-d trees are all "classic examples" of such spatial-subdivision data structures and associated access algorithms commonly used throughout 3D graphics, esp. in 3D apps' geometry engines (though pragmatically they're more akin to databases than computation engine). There are many others as well, all varying in efficiency and performance characteristics for different usage scenarios.

    I'm providing Wikipedia links because they're quick and easy to grasp, but to really understand the structures and algorithms involved there are much deeper, more thorough references (seminal SIGGRAPH papers, etc.) for each that get into relative efficiency, etc. for anyone considering using them, or wanting to better understand the trade-offs between them. Even efficient LOD processing is very much bound to the relative efficiency of accessing and gathering spatially-stored geometry data.

    Like any other database, also, there are certain aspects which represent "infrastructure" to the engine/database itself (synchronization/locking, replication, change-/event-tracking) which can have HUGE impacts on the overall efficiency of the geometry engine's interaction with other entities in the overall application -- change-/event-tracking and synchronization-grain (which tend to be tightly-coupled) are particularly sensitive areas in that regard.
    Last edited by jwiede; 01-01-2017 at 06:09 PM.
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2019.1.4 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),64GB RAM, NV 980ti

  7. #1222
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    6,770
    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    Yeah interesting question. I had a play with it and made a video...
    All things considered, even with caching off the performance shown in the video is pretty decent for that many independently-rigged characters. Cached, the perf seemed more than adequate for clean animation previewing.

    The actors don't appear to be instanced (based on your changing one without affecting the others), so is each then a separately-loaded fbx entity? Is there any referencing between the different actors in the scene?
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2019.1.4 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),64GB RAM, NV 980ti

  8. #1223
    Right yeah. No instancing. Separately loaded files. I was intentionally trying to bog it down. Also with Real Time off, it was not skipping frames which helps to make it bog down. Thanks for the info about cache and the links.

    @Jason, you are welcome. Yeah seems fairly intuitive as an animation workflow.

  9. #1224
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    6,770
    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    Right yeah. No instancing. Separately loaded files. I was intentionally trying to bog it down. Also with Real Time off, it was not skipping frames which helps to make it bog down. Thanks for the info about cache and the links.
    Thanks for info to you as well!
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2019.1.4 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),64GB RAM, NV 980ti

  10. #1225

  11. #1226
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Kuala Lumpur
    Posts
    267
    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    The way the forum activity has all but flat-lined reinforces that position. Even when LW3DG were making blog posts earlier this year, most of the replies were from folks "still here". There wasn't a big influx of users who had previously disappeared, as if they were just silently lurking waiting for news.

    Worse, even Softimage was never really "dark" in the same way LW3DG has been: Softimage were still producing feature-add point releases to 3.x (3.5:5/96, 3.7:4/97, 3.8:4/98, 3.9:3/00) as well as service packs to those releases (3.8SP1:Feb99, 3.8SP2:Aug99), even while working on XSI (1.0:5/00). They were actively fixing and releasing service packs for the existing product throughout XSI development, engaging in public communication, marketing, you name it. Also worth note, XSI only took around five years, and that's including ongoing dev of the existing product.

    LW3DG aren't making anywhere near the level of effort Softimage made to satisfy and retain customers.
    I guess me alone is not influx enough. But I think from the market it seems that companies will choose rental as it allow them to scale per project (which work well when you business model are based on contract workers instead of full time employee). Also what happened to SoftImage caused some people to either stick with what large and popular, or go open source. once bitten twice shy I guess.

    Apparently, cycles (therefore, Blender) is more popular than modo and LW. I know cycles is now an external-ish renderer that supported in several program now, but still...

    http://www.cgarchitect.com/2016/11/2...rvey---results

    i will visit blog.lightwave.com once in a blue moon to see how things goes, but since the blog started in oct 2015 and now we are in 2017 and not much news on the release side, things are not looking good...

  12. #1227
    I haven't finished reading all of this thread yet but something struck me on what I've gotten through so far. Prior to the release of CORE, things were announced early, then there were issues and the LWG was ripped apart on the forums as a result. I seriously doubt that even now, they want to promise/hint at something that could result in that happening again. It got pretty ugly. Granted, it has been quite awhile though. i haven't been on here much but am a bit surprised there isn't more information regarding what is going on. Marketing is super expensive but a few tidbits here and there on the forums would help with a lot of the frustration.

    Hopefully whatever happened to Rob is resolved and he is ok but obviously we don't know that unless it is later in the thread and I just haven't gotten to that part yet. Feel free to post a spoiler update if the answer is super deep in the thread ha ha.

    While we always have the option to use other SW, there has been more than one occasion that I was on here frantically searching at 2AM for a solution to a problem. It didn't seem like some of the other packages had that level of open sharing and support among the members. At least one package almost seemed like their forum members guarded everything like Fort Knox and wouldn't help anyone. Its been quite awhile since I looked into that however so perhaps this is dated information and that is no longer the case.

    CORE left a bad taste in my mouth as well but I continue to use LW and intend to for the foreseeable future. One funny thing is I had never heard of Moi before starting this thread, looks like a handy little package although it doesn't appear to have been updated for awhile.
    Last edited by Daphne; 01-25-2017 at 09:07 PM. Reason: it duplicated what I typed for some weird reason

  13. #1228
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    11,399
    LW3DG went dark. That's the reality. I don't mean that in the Softimage XSI kind of way, I mean that in the Newtekian kind of way, which means this is the first time this has happened here I think.
    Last edited by jasonwestmas; 01-25-2017 at 09:21 PM.
    All that is powerful or long standing is first conceived in the imagination; supported by the hope of possibility and then made manifest in our commitment of our current physical reality.

  14. #1229
    Registered User Spaceland's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    43
    Quote Originally Posted by Daphne View Post
    I haven't finished reading all of this thread yet but something struck me on what I've gotten through so far. Prior to the release of CORE, things were announced early, then there were issues and the LWG was ripped apart on the forums as a result. I seriously doubt that even now, they want to promise/hint at something that could result in that happening again. It got pretty ugly. Granted, it has been quite awhile though. i haven't been on here much but am a bit surprised there isn't more information regarding what is going on. Marketing is super expensive but a few tidbits here and there on the forums would help with a lot of the frustration.

    Hopefully whatever happened to Rob is resolved and he is ok but obviously we don't know that unless it is later in the thread and I just haven't gotten to that part yet. Feel free to post a spoiler update if the answer is super deep in the thread ha ha.

    While we always have the option to use other SW, there has been more than one occasion that I was on here frantically searching at 2AM for a solution to a problem. It didn't seem like some of the other packages had that level of open sharing and support among the members. At least one package almost seemed like their forum members guarded everything like Fort Knox and wouldn't help anyone. Its been quite awhile since I looked into that however so perhaps this is dated information and that is no longer the case.

    CORE left a bad taste in my mouth as well but I continue to use LW and intend to for the foreseeable future. One funny thing is I had never heard of Moi before starting this thread, looks like a handy little package although it doesn't appear to have been updated for awhile.
    If you speak about Moi 3D (Moment of Inspiration), the developer is re-coding the software from ground up to use 64 bits and much more. If you check the forum post you can find it and he gives feedback and welcome comments and help from the user base. Current version is 3.

    If you speak about Moi 3D the software.
    [Denis]

    | Coreldraw X6 | Cinema 4D R15 Prime | Lightwave 3d 11.6 | Moi 3D |
    | Intel i7-4700MQ | GeForce GTX 765M 2GB |

  15. #1230
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Stockholm
    Posts
    1,450
    Quote Originally Posted by fablefox View Post
    I guess me alone is not influx enough. But I think from the market it seems that companies will choose rental as it allow them to scale per project (which work well when you business model are based on contract workers instead of full time employee). Also what happened to SoftImage caused some people to either stick with what large and popular, or go open source. once bitten twice shy I guess.

    Apparently, cycles (therefore, Blender) is more popular than modo and LW. I know cycles is now an external-ish renderer that supported in several program now, but still...

    http://www.cgarchitect.com/2016/11/2...rvey---results

    i will visit blog.lightwave.com once in a blue moon to see how things goes, but since the blog started in oct 2015 and now we are in 2017 and not much news on the release side, things are not looking good...
    It is interesting to note what high profile products are below Lightwave in that graph. Not that it really means anything.
    Last edited by MichaelT; 01-26-2017 at 12:20 AM.

Page 82 of 141 FirstFirst ... 3272808182838492132 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •