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Thread: Few questions

  1. #1
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    Few questions

    Hi,

    after reading the documentation, I have a few questions and remarks :

    - I can't find any information about LTC. Did you remove it ?
    - Still 8 PTZ cameras control max ? More of that would be great, if you consider the huge number of inputs you can get in IP serie...
    - Any way to synchronise recording on input module with the recording inside mix engine ? So you could get same I/O TC when doing ISO record....

    Thanks,

    Jerome

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by doctorsunshine View Post
    Hi,

    after reading the documentation, I have a few questions and remarks :

    - I can't find any information about LTC. Did you remove it ?
    - Still 8 PTZ cameras control max ? More of that would be great, if you consider the huge number of inputs you can get in IP serie...
    - Any way to synchronise recording on input module with the recording inside mix engine ? So you could get same I/O TC when doing ISO record....

    Thanks,

    Jerome
    I'll answer the ones that I know.

    LTC, not sure.

    For PTZ the max number of cameras is 8. I believe the reasoning at 8 is that if you want to control more than that number of cameras you probably have a camera operator with their own control panel to manage all of those cameras. On a side note, the PTZ system for IP Series has been completely re-written, with the Panasonic HE130 camera that I had control over at IBC it worked fantastically. No lag, no problems with response. I had control over the camera for 5 days with not one hitch the entire time.

    For synchronized recording, this option is not available. Currently you have to manage the recording of each system using the local UI. My understanding is that a future version of software will address this.
    Last edited by kanep; 09-20-2016 at 08:32 AM.
    Kane Peterson
    Solutions Architect
    NewTek, Inc.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanep View Post

    For PTZ the max number of cameras is 8. I believe the reasoning at 8 is that if you want to control more than that number of cameras you probably have a camera operator with their own control panel to manage all of those cameras. On a side note, the PTZ system for IP Series has been complete re-written, with the Panasonic HE130 camera that I had control over at IBC it worked fantastically. No lag, no problems with response. I had control over the camera for 5 days with not one hitch the entire time.
    I see your point, but in some cases cameras might have to be automatically controlled for small live between bigger events, for example in a mixed radio / tv program, and it's not always easy to know at start which cameras might need tricaster control, and even harder to change them in the fly ( in my experience with the software versions I use, software has to be restarted after PTz IP set-up for correct detection).
    Also, one of the first things I tried during IBC was PTZ control, and indeed the control seems to work perfectly now. That's great !

    Quote Originally Posted by kanep View Post

    For synchronized recording, this option is not available. Currently you have to manage the recording of each system using the local UI. My understanding is that a future version of software will address this.
    I think it's really mandatory if Newtek want to sell the system as a unified solution, instead of a bunch of NDI connect computers connected to a Tricaster As well as the control of each module directly from the main mix engine. Going through a KVm matrix increases the cost a lot. a RDC-like system might be a solution, but only if you're able to access it and use it at the same time as the live session.

    Thanks,

    Jerome

  4. #4
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    VMC1 does offer LTC support. At the present time, it works similar to the earlier 2RU TriCaster and 3Play systems, in that it 'listens' for timecode supplied to the (blue) motherboard line input. (This support hasn't been documented, sorry. The oversight flows from some impending adjustments that will pultimately provide greater flexibility.)

    To another of your points, I tend to agree that we are going to see more and more use of ptz/robotic cameras in times to come. For the moment, VMC1 provides control for eight such cameras; I can't comment on the likelihood of an increase in the near future, but it would certainly not surprise me.

    Finally, as respects your other questions re: capture, I can't really address this at this time, but will say that some very interesting possibilities are under consideration.
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  5. #5
    Registered User rsilva's Avatar
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    Hello all,

    Just another short question about VMC1:

    Is it possible to make live events like a conferenc with the NDI latency? Will I have troubles with lip sync of the speaker when simulteanous projection is needed?

    TY
    Last edited by rsilva; 10-04-2016 at 02:13 AM.

  6. #6
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilva View Post
    Hello all,

    Just another short question about VMC1:

    Is it possible to make live events like a conferenc with the NDI latency? Will I have troubles with lip sync of the speaker when simulteanous projection is needed?

    TY
    Latency during IMAG (projection) is a compound problem with many elements. Audio-video speed differential through air over even moderate distances is by far the biggest one, but video latency at monitors/projectors is also a big factor. Quite apart from NDI, your video mixer will add perhaps 1 to 1.5 frames, too.

    There are many, many factors involved, and without more information on your setup, it's hard to offer much guidance. Perhaps you're aware of all of this, so I will just add that NDI latency is negligible, and will probably be the tiniest thing you have to deal with.
    --
    Regards, Steve
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  7. #7
    At the TwitchCon convention where they were using an IP Series to broadcast the event and display the output on a giant monitor wall for IMAG, there was no noticeable latency. Some cameras were connected using Input modules over the network. They were also working in 1080p/60 video format which I'm sure helped as well, for IMAG try to work in the highest progressive frame rate video format possible to minimize latency.
    Last edited by kanep; 10-04-2016 at 09:44 AM.
    Kane Peterson
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    NewTek, Inc.

  8. #8
    NewTek System Integrator PIZAZZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanep View Post
    At the TwitchCon convention where they were using an IP Series to broadcast the event and display the output on a giant monitor wall for IMAG, there was no noticeable latency. Some cameras were connected using Input modules over the network. They were also working in 1080p/60 video format which I'm sure helped as well, for IMAG try to work in the highest progressive frame rate video format possible to minimize latency.
    That is really good news to hear.
    Jef Kethley
    PIZAZZ
    www.pizazz.com

    Using:
    All models of TriCasters + 3Play, IPSeries
    Panasonic UB300 4k cams
    Tactical Fiber/converters, SDI2NDI converters, NDI-Viewfinder, and NDI2HDMI

  9. #9
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    Hi,

    I have some other questions :

    - reading the VMC Input module manual, we can supply LTC using one of the audio inputs. If used with a Mix engine, IMHO the best solution would be to get the main LTC, supplied to the mix engine, over the network. Is it possible ?
    - During IBC I got a quick demo of the remote control possibility using embedded webserver. Any document where I can find more information about it ? That's for a specific customer request, which is :
    - Let's say I'm using the embedded recorder to record PGM, and want to publish some clips during record to social networks. Of course I could do that using the Publish feature, but my customer would like to have another guy than the main and busy user dealing with that part. So that should be done using another working place. Any idea to do that ? macros, remote control, etc ?

    Thanks,

    Jerome

  10. #10
    Registered User rsilva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    Latency during IMAG (projection) is a compound problem with many elements. Audio-video speed differential through air over even moderate distances is by far the biggest one, but video latency at monitors/projectors is also a big factor. Quite apart from NDI, your video mixer will add perhaps 1 to 1.5 frames, too.

    There are many, many factors involved, and without more information on your setup, it's hard to offer much guidance. Perhaps you're aware of all of this, so I will just add that NDI latency is negligible, and will probably be the tiniest thing you have to deal with.
    Thank you for your answer. You are right, I should have talked a little bit more about my initial setup:

    - 3 Sony HDC-P1 cameras connected directly through HD-SDI cable (+/- 150 meters) to the Mixer.

    - 1 PGM output throught HD-SDI cable (15 meters) to Panasonic PT-DZ13K Projector.


    My main objective is add 2 more cameras in this setup using NDI Input Modules and maybe change the current 3 Sony cams to NDI too.

    So, in your experience is it possible do it without latency troubles with NDI or i'll have troubles with the latency comparing with the current setup with HD-SDI only?

  11. #11
    Registered User rsilva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanep View Post
    At the TwitchCon convention where they were using an IP Series to broadcast the event and display the output on a giant monitor wall for IMAG, there was no noticeable latency. Some cameras were connected using Input modules over the network. They were also working in 1080p/60 video format which I'm sure helped as well, for IMAG try to work in the highest progressive frame rate video format possible to minimize latency.
    Thank you for your reply. This is very good news. Do you have any ideia of ethernet cables distances?

  12. #12
    Registered User GThomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilva View Post
    Thank you for your reply. This is very good news. Do you have any ideia of ethernet cables distances?
    Ethernet cable shouldn't depend on if you're using NDI or not. CAT6 caps out around 300 feet, but the possibilities are endless using fiber based networks/central routers. Cable length shouldn't be a problem, provided you're no more than the 300 feet CAT6 can handle or using routers/switches. The length limit is each segment of cable, not the total distance it is allowed to travel point A to B, obviously.
    Gabe Thomas

  13. #13
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilva View Post
    So, in your experience is it possible do it without latency troubles with NDI or i'll have troubles with the latency comparing with the current setup with HD-SDI only?
    Imho, NDI latency on a (local) network can be considered negligible for all practical purposes - including IMAG.
    --
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by doctorsunshine View Post
    Hi,

    I have some other questions :

    - reading the VMC Input module manual, we can supply LTC using one of the audio inputs. If used with a Mix engine, IMHO the best solution would be to get the main LTC, supplied to the mix engine, over the network. Is it possible ?
    - During IBC I got a quick demo of the remote control possibility using embedded webserver. Any document where I can find more information about it ? That's for a specific customer request, which is :
    - Let's say I'm using the embedded recorder to record PGM, and want to publish some clips during record to social networks. Of course I could do that using the Publish feature, but my customer would like to have another guy than the main and busy user dealing with that part. So that should be done using another working place. Any idea to do that ? macros, remote control, etc ?

    Thanks,

    Jerome
    Any feedback ?

  15. #15
    - get the main LTC, supplied to the mix engine, over the network. Is it possible ?
    Not that I"m aware of. LTC would need to be connected via a local audio cable to each system.

    -remote control possibility using embedded webserver. Any document where I can find more information about it ?
    If you sign up for the SDK you can get information on this. I also teach a class in San Antonio (a few times a year) on how to operate TriCaster via the web control. While I was at IBC I tried a few of my web application on VMC1 and was happy to see that they worked with no modification. If you know HTML/JavaScript, you can download some of my web applications and take a look at them (everything is in plain text) to see what is going on.

    -using the Publish feature, but my customer would like to have another guy than the main and busy user dealing with that part.
    There is some setup that had to be done in advance (like setting up the publish destinations), but once you have that configured, then you can do the rest of what you are speaking of from macros or web control. In fact, I think the 'Media Player' web application that is included with the VMC1 gives you the ability to publish. If I'm remembering correctly, the nice thing there is that you can have someone over the network, load clips, trim them and then publish. If you setup a publish to a network folder that the person has access to, they can get the clips for final QA, then push it up to any social media location themselves. You could of course, publish directly to any location as well.
    Kane Peterson
    Solutions Architect
    NewTek, Inc.

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