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Thread: Record alpha Channel

  1. #1
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    Record alpha Channel

    Hi I have a video with green background, i activate Livemate fot this video now it supouse to be on alpha channel right?

    then I recorded It on the Tricaster. select the video with livemate on PGM output then activate record output1

    Can I recored it with the alpha channel? i playback my file but have black background instead alpha channel

    it's possible?

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  2. #2
    Registered User Paris MkVI's Avatar
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    I am sure someone else will speak up on this. I believe your key within the TriCaster will work within the TriCaster, but will not give you a file to take elsewhere with an alpha channel. You will need to applying keying hardware or software to your footage wherever you go with the file.
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  3. #3
    You cannot record a single file with alpha channel, but you can use the 'Show Alpha' effect in a M/E to create a black/white matte. Then record the source and the M/E as separate files to be combined back together in another software program.
    Kane Peterson
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    Hi Kane,

    I've got the mini, would you mind briefly walking me through how to set this up? I couldn't figure it out easily. Thanks a bunch.

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    Hi Tim,

    I'd ask first, what is the intended end result? That will determine the most efficient workflow. You can export the raw clip, and a second copy that is just the black and white alpha matte version, but then what? Where is it going, to be used how? If you have a green screen clip for instance, and want to be able to use that in TriCaster without having to apply LiveMatte every time - you want the alpha transparency baked into the clip - then take the clip to Premiere or another NLE, key out the green, then export using the Newtek QuickTime codec with Alpha. The resulting clip is then ready to use as an overlay in TriCaster.

    If you do want to export a Matte, set up an M/E in EFFECT mode, and in Virtual Sets, find the SHOW ALPHA utility. Select your green clip source (DDR?) with LiveMatte applied. The M/E output should be a black and white "cookie cutter" creating a Matte than can later be combined with the original clip to key it in another program, for instance Premiere. But then why not just chroma key it in Premiere, why the need for a matte anyway? So let us know what you really need to accomplish here.

    Thanks
    Jeff Pulera
    Streaming Broadcast Solutions - Newtek Elite

    TriCasters: Mini with AE, TC1
    Camera: Sony PMW-X70 4K
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  6. #6
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPulera View Post
    But then why not just chroma key it in Premiere, why the need for a matte anyway? So let us know what you really need to accomplish here.
    I was just about to write something similar. Kane's suggestion would work, but you wind up with two clips that have to be combined in another app to create the final single clip with alpha. Most apps that can do this latter bit for you are perfectly capable of doing the key themselves, so it hardly seems worth the bother.
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  7. #7
    Registered User Stream's Avatar
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    Import your original video into After Effects and key out the green and then export it as a Quicktime file rendering the RGB and Alpha in the same file.
    Yes, you would need After Effects. You can get a 30 day free trial and get it done.
    http://www.adobe.com/products/aftere...171103180530:s
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  8. #8
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Or install Fusion and do it for free ... or any number of other tools.
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  9. #9
    Registered User Stream's Avatar
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    Who makes Fusion?
    Never heard of it.

    I just found it. Very Cool!
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  10. #10
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    After Effects not needed, Premiere works or even the old Newtek SpeedEdit would be perfectly capable of pulling the key then exporting with alpha.

    Thanks

    Jeff

  11. #11
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stream View Post
    I just found it. Very Cool!
    It's especially cool now that it's not $2500.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPulera View Post
    Hi Tim,

    I'd ask first, what is the intended end result? That will determine the most efficient workflow. You can export the raw clip, and a second copy that is just the black and white alpha matte version, but then what? Where is it going, to be used how? If you have a green screen clip for instance, and want to be able to use that in TriCaster without having to apply LiveMatte every time - you want the alpha transparency baked into the clip - then take the clip to Premiere or another NLE, key out the green, then export using the Newtek QuickTime codec with Alpha. The resulting clip is then ready to use as an overlay in TriCaster.

    If you do want to export a Matte, set up an M/E in EFFECT mode, and in Virtual Sets, find the SHOW ALPHA utility. Select your green clip source (DDR?) with LiveMatte applied. The M/E output should be a black and white "cookie cutter" creating a Matte than can later be combined with the original clip to key it in another program, for instance Premiere. But then why not just chroma key it in Premiere, why the need for a matte anyway? So let us know what you really need to accomplish here.

    Thanks
    Awesome,
    I'll try that in a little bit. Background: We use two canon XA camcorders. Two cam shoot on green cyc. Talent turns back and forth between cameras/prompters. We then take C1, and C2 directly to disk, and ultimately into PremiereProCC, cut together with cool grfx and lots of after effects. We use Ultra Key (out of the box) along with Lumetri Color and Spill Killer (Free plugin from Red Giant) to help with green spill. Export and everyone is happy.
    However, to get a better key, we have primattte and other apps, but they are very render-intensive and and GPU intensive, and don't allow a quick key. They're very cool, but quite honestly, I've seen a better key out of the tricaster with hardly no spill. The best option would be to have a quicktime with alpha, along with the original camera footage. In order to use the Show Alpha utility, I'd need to have a reg code for Virtual Set right? I don't have that...maybe I'm not looking in the right place...

    Appreciate your response.

  13. #13
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    Not in front of TriCaster right now, but set M/E to EFFECT, then browse to I believe the end of the virtual sets list and there are some utility tools to find Show Alpha, no license required. So you could do what Kane suggested, recording both the green screen clip and the alpha matte version simultaneously, then matte those two files together in Premiere. Should be less work/rendering than UltraKey and Spill Killer, since the key is already done.

    In Record Config, record the RAW camera source so that it still has the green (not keyed to black, in case you need to key later) and also record the matching M/E "Show Alpha" as the matte.

    Thanks

    Jeff
    Jeff Pulera
    Streaming Broadcast Solutions - Newtek Elite

    TriCasters: Mini with AE, TC1
    Camera: Sony PMW-X70 4K
    Controllers: All variety of XKeys
    PTZ: Newtek NDIHX-PTZ1

  14. #14
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmiller View Post
    In order to use the Show Alpha utility, I'd need to have a reg code for Virtual Set right? I don't have that...maybe I'm not looking in the right place...
    No, Show Alpha is one of the standard LiveSet effects, found in the Utilities dir.
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  15. #15
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmiller View Post
    However, to get a better key, we have primattte and other apps, but they are very render-intensive and and GPU intensive, and don't allow a quick key. They're very cool, but quite honestly, I've seen a better key out of the tricaster with hardly no spill.
    Thanks for the kind observation, btw. The keyer is one aspect of our tech that Andrew takes personal ownership of, and he never stops trying to improve it. I know for a fact he's been working on a new version that will provide still far better realtime results.
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