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Thread: Depth sensor for Nevron

  1. #1
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    Depth sensor for Nevron

    Hi all

    I can't get hold of the Microsoft adapter for the kinect one, so I am looking to see if there are any alternative sensors I can buy. Any thoughts?

  2. #2
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    I'm guessing that it only works with the Kinect then

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    Only a Kinect, either 360 or One.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areyos Alektor View Post
    Only a Kinect, either 360 or One.
    Thanks
    I managed to find one and a cable, so can't wait to get it

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    You can do a lot with NevronMotion, but even more with a Kinect. Have fun

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areyos Alektor View Post


    You can do a lot with NevronMotion, but even more with a Kinect. Have fun
    Will do thanks can't wait

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    Hi. I haven't gotten into Nevron Motion because I don't have a Kinect. But if I were to purchase a Kinect in December 2017 I have a few questions:

    1. Can the Kinect focus on specific body parts besides the faces, i.e. hands?

    2. Is there an alternative motion capture software that Lightwave uses with other MoCap technology, i.e. gloves or body suits?

  8. #8
    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie2Strokes View Post
    Hi. I haven't gotten into Nevron Motion because I don't have a Kinect. But if I were to purchase a Kinect in December 2017 I have a few questions:

    1. Can the Kinect focus on specific body parts besides the faces, i.e. hands?

    2. Is there an alternative motion capture software that Lightwave uses with other MoCap technology, i.e. gloves or body suits?
    Nevron Motion is a general purpose mocap editing tool for LightWave, and you don't specifically need a Kinect to use it. As mentioned earlier, a Kinect does make it more fun though.

    LightWave uses the original Kinect SDK, which is designed to work with full body, upper body, or the face. I recall seeing a third-party program years ago that captured hand motions. I'm not sure it used Kinect though; I think it used video or web cameras.

    In any case, to use a Kinect for hand capture you would probably need the Kinect For Windows model to use Near Mode. Kinect for XBox (aka, Kinect v 1.0) did not support Near Mode and, without it, I don't think it would be able to get accurate enough scans for fingers. Unfortunately, Kinect For Windows is no longer available. (I have three here but I'm not giving them up.)

    Kinect One (aka, Kinect 2.0) can work with LightWave and Nevron Motion, but I'm not sure the device is fully supported in LightWave yet. Kinect One supports higher resolution than the original Kinect, resulting in cleaner depth data. However, because it's still a 30fps device, realtime capture can be a little 'skippy' for fast motions. I posted some info a couple of years ago for getting it to work with LightWave and Nevron Motion. A search in these forums should turn it up.

    I'm almost sure I saw somebody using Kinect One for hand capture experiments but I don't personally have experience with that. Sorry.

    LightWave supports FBX, which is the most universal way to get mocap data into LightWave. This allows you to use almost any third party mocap system with LightWave. You'll need a way to retarget the data to your LightWave rig. Nevron Motion gives you a basic way to do that. Motion Builder is a better option but it's expensive. A good low-cost alternative to Motion Builder is the standalone version of Ikinema Webanimate, which I think you can still get for around $125. If you can spend a bit more--$550 or so--I believe Reallusion's iClone With 3DXchange Pipeline will give you a lot more options and control for editing mocap. I have both Webanimate and iClone with 3DX (iClone 6 is current and iClone 7 is about to start public beta,) but haven't been able to spend much time with them yet. I know a user who uses both regularly, and he says either one is pretty good for what they cost. Right now, I rely on my old copy of Motion Builder 2011, which I'll continue to use until I finish my current personal project. After that, I'll be switching to one of these other two programs. (I personally don't know enough to choose one over the other yet.)

    For mocap recording, I use iPi Mocap Studio, which can capture motion from 16 PS3 Eye cameras or up to four Microsoft Kinect sensors, and PS Move controllers. Yesterday, a new version of iPi Recorder came out that supports the new Logitech BRIO camera, which is a 4k webcamera capable of recording at 90fps--this should allow you to increase the size of the performance space and capture much faster motions.

    I currently prefer using two synchronized Kinect One sensors because it's pretty easy to set up and take down (about 5 minutes, tops!) and doesn't require special clothing or a lot of space (I typically record in our living room.) I also use three PS Move controllers with the Kinect capture--one for each hand and one to record head rotation. I use this system mainly for personal projects but have used it to create fx for a couple of feature films too. AFAIK, iPi Mocap Studio is the only system that can record with multiple Kinect sensors, and it's compatible with any of the three Kinect models. With v1, you can connect multiple sensors to a single computer but with v2, you need a separate computer for each sensor (it's a Kinect One SDK limitation.) If the computers are networked by Ethernet, the data from each computer is merged immediately to the 'master' computer. But if you're using wifi to link the computers, it can be a bit slow, so they give the option to batch process the data later.

    The Move controllers are used to record rotation at the neck and wrists. Typically, the Kinect data doesn't have enough resolution to track this accurately, so the Move data can be applied to replace the Kinect in these joints. IMO, it's worth the extra step--it really does look a lot better.

    Mocap Studio doesn't not record finger motions but it does have a good system for adding interpolated hand animations. The tool is basically a pose library with some common poses you can insert on the timeline, and you can add to this library for special poses. It's kind of a 'quick and dirty' solution but can look surprisingly good, and it's a lot easier, faster than using a real hand/fingers mocap system, which can actually get very complicated.

    Unlike other Kinect-based mocap systems, iPi Mocap Studio is a two-process system. First you record your motion data using iPi Recorder. After your done recording all your motions, you bring the data into Mocap Studio where you track the motion to a 3D rig. It's not a realtime system but the final mocap is smoother significantly more accurate. And because you can use multiple sensors, you don't have nearly as many self-occlusion problems as you would have with a single sensor. Tracking speed is dependent on the speed of your GPU, but any decent gaming card will do. It works great with my current GTX 970 but I thought it was was fine with my old GTX 460 too.

    I normally export my motion data from Mocap Studio as .bvh, retarget that data to my LightWave skeleton in Motion Builder, and then export the motion as FBX for LightWave. Then, using Merge Only Motion Data in Layout, I transfer the data to my rigged character in LightWave. BTW, LightWave Genoma rigs work fine for this--I've used that workflow for several digital stunt double in a few movies a couple of years ago. But you don't need Motion Builder for that: Mocap Studio will let you to retarget to your own rig and export as FBX too.

    Another popular system is the Perception Neuron and I think you can get a glove based this system for hand capture. I don't have any experience with this system but I know a few users here have it. Maybe we'll get some input from them soon.

    For more about 'home brew' mocap and LightWave, check out the 'Brudders' link below. The info in that thread is a little dated by now but it might still be useful. You can also see some of my mocap studio stuff in my 'The Asylum Reel', also below. I'm working on some workflow videos and will announce them in the 'Brudders' thread when they're ready.

    Hope this helps.

  9. #9
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRwg6YlBKcA If you have a vive, add two motion trackers add Ikinema software (£99 for indie devs). And it looks like another great and somewhat afforable motion capture alternative.

  10. #10
    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    I asked the devs at iPi Soft about the new camera support the other day and got a response.

    It sounds like they are a little disappointed with the BRIO, but they found that Logitech C922 works remarkably well with their software. In fact, they're viewing it as a replacement for the aging PS3 Eye camera.

    The C922 records 1280 x 720 @ 60fps. The frame rate is the same as PS3 Eye but the C922 has better optics and significantly higher resolution. The FOV is a little narrower than the PS3 Eye but the aspect ratio is much wider. What this means is that the cameras need to be a little farther away but the capture space is also singnificantly increased. The better optics should mean cleaner data, and 60fps is still pretty decent for capturing fast motion.

    A typical modern laptop should be able to capture from three C922, so you'll need two laptops or a beefy workstation with multiple controller cards if you want to record from at least six cameras. (I don't know what the max is but probably 16 cameras like PS3 Eye.)

    They're supposed to release a test video soon demonstrating a six C922 camera setup.

    I'm not ready to give up my Kinect One sensors yet (I have four of them,) but I'm keeping an eye on this.

  11. #11
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    Looks like the iClone 7, 3DXchange 7 Pipeline, Character Creator 2.0 betas for 'early bird' purchasers started today.

    I'm downloading the betas this evening. My main interest is in iClone and 3DXchange together as a potential Motion Builder replacement but I barely know how to use the current release right now. Unfortunately, I probably won't be getting too involved with the beta because I've got way too many things going on right now.

    Just posting this info in case anybody else was interested in getting in on this. If you do, let us know what you think. If I can manage the time, I'll post my own thoughts about its LightWave-friendliness.

  12. #12

    Another popular system is the Perception Neuron and I think you can get a glove based this system for hand capture. I don't have any experience with this system but I know a few users here have it. Maybe we'll get some input from them soon.
    own it, but haven't had the time to test it, so many things on my list, right now i'm looking into stereoscopic VFX, chroma keying, and other things, so won't be able to test it any time soon, unfortunately... :/

    by the way, for mocap, also check Brekel,
    https://www.google.no/#q=brekel+mocap
    $140, no subscription
    lower quality than iPi i believe...
    higher than Nevron though
    Last edited by erikals; 04-28-2017 at 02:42 PM.
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  13. #13
    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    ...haven't had the time to test it, so many things on my list...
    Sigh! I know what you mean. I actually work fewer hours than I used to but I feel like I have less time now for personal projects. I don't understand that math.

    Oh, wait. That's right...I have a ten-year old. No wonder I'm tired all the time.

  14. #14

    ah, LoL, you mean, you have a Life...

    an advantage in this field though is that if you take some time off, you will wake up to cool new tools  
    Last edited by erikals; 04-28-2017 at 03:47 PM.
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