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Thread: Update? news?

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Tartiflette View Post
    and the fact that you are "limited" to bruteforce, even if it produces great renders is very limiting for a lot of the work i still have to do.

    Cheers,
    Laurent aka Tartiflette.
    Hmm but that's not really true, you can use Octane in non brute force mode i.e you can use DL kernel and AO mode which is partially biased and can be 10,20,30x times faster than path tracing, you just need to tweak materials/Gamma and settings to incorporate into that workflow.
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  2. #62
    Mike, in Monsters Inc Tartiflette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    Hmm but that's not really true, you can use Octane in non brute force mode i.e you can use DL kernel and AO mode which is partially biased and can be 10,20,30x times faster than path tracing, you just need to tweak materials/Gamma and settings to incorporate into that workflow.
    Yep, sure, but you still have the noise you get with brute force path tracing...

    It's just cleaning faster due to using some sort of shortcuts (i don't know exactly how it behaves internally as i'm not a coder of this render engine) but still it can be noisy as hell when you need really quick render times, except if you have like 7 or 8 big GPUs working for you.
    The fact is i can still render nice images (not as photorealistic as what Octane can do, there's no question about that) really fast with LightWave when needed and not with any other render engine.

    I wouldn't mind even faster render times, mind you, and i know that LightWave's render engine is totally outdated for some tasks (i'm "fighting" with it since 20+ years now and have tried almost everything available on this planet when it comes to render engines ! ) but, like i said earlier, i wouldn't dismiss biased render engines so quickly.
    That was in reply to Tyrot who was giving the feeling anyone should use Octane, and i'm quite far from thinking the same, even if i own a license.


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    Laurent aka Tartiflette.

  3. #63
    Super Member samurai_x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tartiflette View Post
    but you still have the noise you get with brute force path tracing...
    With Redshift, the drawbacks of using Octane is almost non-existent.
    We should ask Juanjo to port it to Lightwave.
    He's already doing the Houdini version.
    It is the fastest renderer available.

  4. #64
    Mike, in Monsters Inc Tartiflette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samurai_x View Post
    With Redshift, the drawbacks of using Octane is almost non-existent.
    We should ask Juanjo to port it to Lightwave.
    He's already doing the Houdini version.
    It is the fastest renderer available.
    That's what i heard, yes !
    Unfortunately not being available on Mac or for LightWave so right now it's a "no-go" for me, even i'm using Houdini more and more !
    Anyway, i'll wait for a Mac version first, then i'll see what 3D app work with it.


    Cheers,
    Laurent aka Tartiflette.

  5. #65
    Super Member samurai_x's Avatar
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    I hope Juanjo considers bringing Redshift to Lightwave.
    Octane, being unbiased render engine, is extremely slow in comparison. Not going to update to 3.0.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by samurai_x View Post
    I hope Juanjo considers bringing Redshift to Lightwave.
    Octane, being unbiased render engine, is extremely slow in comparison. Not going to update to 3.0.
    Why not ? Octane 3.0 renders on different method (frame buffer is now onto CPU/RAM) and even with less than 100% GPU utilization it renders same 2.25 scenes 15-30% faster in all my tests/benches.
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  7. #67
    Super Member samurai_x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    Why not ? Octane 3.0 renders on different method (frame buffer is now onto CPU/RAM) and even with less than 100% GPU utilization it renders same 2.25 scenes 15-30% faster in all my tests/benches.
    Even if octane 3 is 90% faster than octane 2 its nothing. Redshift is atleast 500% faster than octane 2.
    Think how maxwell is compared to vray. The difference in speed is like 20x.
    Its actually an unfair comparison with biased and unbiased engines, but in the end its how fast you get to the final image that matters.

    Since Juanjo is already in the Redshift team. We should convince him to try and bring Redshift to Lightwave.

  8. #68
    I understand that (and that was not in question 'coz comparing biased vs unbiased is not easy and they both have their pros and cons) BUT there is NO Redshift for LW (and if there would be one now it surely won't be mature and stable for many months in future) so if you are currently use octane 2.25 there is no much logic to not upgrade (esp 'coz combo price upgrade was just 75$) and get 30% faster renders on same hardware.
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  9. #69
    Mike, in Monsters Inc Tartiflette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    I understand that (and that was not in question 'coz comparing biased vs unbiased is not easy and they both have their pros and cons) BUT there is NO Redshift for LW (and if there would be one now it surely won't be mature and stable for many months in future) so if you are currently use octane 2.25 there is no much logic to not upgrade (esp 'coz combo price upgrade was just 75$) and get 30% faster renders on same hardware.
    I wish i could be impressed by what Octane has to offer but i'm afraid i'm not, even less considering all you have to do to use Octane in LightWave.
    Not dismissing what JuanJo has done with his plug-in, not at all as everything he has done with the plugin is impressive, clever and always well thought out, but it has to do with the render engine itself : I find it not that fast (i don't have 3,4 or more GPUs, perhaps is it the explanation...) and when i compare what i get with Octane to what i can get with Thea or Indigo, it's by far the least impressive in term of render result of all the "physical" render engine i have to my disposal.

    That said i upgraded to Octane 3 and its LW plugin as a "Thank You" to JuanJo to bring LightWave users such a great plugin and a big opportunity to get Octane for LW, as it seems a big deal to a lot of you guys.


    Cheers,
    Laurent aka Tartiflette.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Tartiflette View Post
    I wish i could be impressed by what Octane has to offer but i'm afraid i'm not, even less considering all you have to do to use Octane in LightWave.
    Not dismissing what JuanJo has done with his plug-in, not at all as everything he has done with the plugin is impressive, clever and always well thought out, but it has to do with the render engine itself : I find it not that fast (i don't have 3,4 or more GPUs, perhaps is it the explanation...) and when i compare what i get with Octane to what i can get with Thea or Indigo, it's by far the least impressive in term of render result of all the "physical" render engine i have to my disposal.
    )
    I guess to each is own, on contrary to your experience i'm quite happy with octane and it smokes my dual Xeons any day even on just 3 GPUs (which still cost lot less than those 2 Xeons ). And quality is beyond anything LW native render can do so i have no complains there either. Esp if you want to do arch-viz animations then setup time is so easy/quick due no problems with splotches, flickering, baking.... just set and shoot to render .

    If you planed to work in Octane on 1 medicore GPU then that was your main mistake. It won't be that comfortable work or fast BUT i'm not rendering CPU stuff on 250$ CPU either (too slow) so it's kinda moot point anyway. It needs to compare Price to price if we are testing render speed with similar quality .

    Also afaik neither Thea or Indigo are LW plugins so i fail to see comparison ? Otherwise we can say Corona and Vray are also cool and great CPU renderers but neither work in LW so no point on discussing it here that way .
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  11. #71
    Mike, in Monsters Inc Tartiflette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    I guess to each is own, on contrary to your experience i'm quite happy with octane and it smokes my dual Xeons any day even on just 3 GPUs (which still cost lot less than those 2 Xeons ). And quality is beyond anything LW native render can do so i have no complains there either. Esp if you want to do arch-viz animations then setup time is so easy/quick due no problems with splotches, flickering, baking.... just set and shoot to render .

    If you planed to work in Octane on 1 medicore GPU then that was your main mistake. It won't be that comfortable work or fast BUT i'm not rendering CPU stuff on 250$ CPU either (too slow) so it's kinda moot point anyway. It needs to compare Price to price if we are testing render speed with similar quality .

    Also afaik neither Thea or Indigo are LW plugins so i fail to see comparison ? Otherwise we can say Corona and Vray are also cool and great CPU renderers but neither work in LW so no point on discussing it here that way .
    I'm all for Octane for LightWave, just in case i wasn't clear enough, and i'm happy to see so much people enjoying it, it's always great to see happy people.

    My first reaction was more to say that, as you say, "to each his own", and i don't understand either when people are coming to ask "why you don't use Octane as it's so great"...
    Octane isn't, by far, a "be all, end all" solution, sometimes it fails to deliver quality renders in the required amount of time, when an "old" biased solution Like LightWave's render engine can do it.

    As for rendering with a cheap GPU, i had, at one time, invested into 2 780GTX to bring Octane a decent rig to work with, but even with that i didn't find it to be that impressive so i ended up selling my additional GPUs and be done with it.
    Now, whenever i need it i'm using it on my 970GTX and that's it, as it's always small things i throw at it.

    As for Thea and Indigo comparison, you're right, neither are available for LightWave, but they are the 2 "physical" render engines i'm using so i have a point of comparison with those 2, when i don't own Vray or Corona (which isn't available on Mac OS X anyway, so that's a "no-go") so i can't say anything about those.
    The goal was to say that, if i had to redo everything to have a superior quality (that's almost what you have to deal with when using Octane, as neither the shaders, the lights or environnement work natively with Octane...) i much prefer to do that in Thea or Indigo as i know that, in the end, i'll have much better quality than with Octane.

    And, just to finish on this, i'm using a 250$ CPU, which allows me to work efficiently on about anything i need !
    For really long render times, nothing beats or even approach an online render farm, except if you're Pixar, ILM or Weta Digital...


    Cheers,
    Laurent aka Tartiflette.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Tartiflette View Post
    As for Thea and Indigo comparison, you're right, neither are available for LightWave, but they are the 2 "physical" render engines i'm using so i have a point of comparison with those 2, when i don't own Vray or Corona (which isn't available on Mac OS X anyway, so that's a "no-go") so i can't say anything about those.
    The goal was to say that, if i had to redo everything to have a superior quality (that's almost what you have to deal with when using Octane, as neither the shaders, the lights or environment work natively with Octane...) i much prefer to do that in Thea or Indigo as i know that, in the end, i'll have much better quality than with Octane.
    Interesting point, can you show me your Octane comparisons/renders with Indigo to show me how you get "much better quality" ? I'm really interested 'coz for octane i never had complains for quality.
    For speed, yes i can see complain for interior rendering speeds due noise (exteriors are superfast with PT Kernel, i had 10-15sec frame for 500+ samples on 3*780) if there is no enough GPUs (takes long time to clear noise which will probably be much better in 3.1 when Adaptive sampling should be implemented but let's wait and see).

    As for my comment about 250$ CPU, sure you can WORK on 100$ CPU but it's not fast, that's my main point, it's not fast for rendering and if there is tight deadline you are in tough spot (in ideal world client(s) would easily pay extra 1000$ for renderfarm to be done in a day instead 15 days but that's not world we live in ).
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  13. #73

    as for noise, don't you guys use noise reduction in post?
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  14. #74
    Super Member samurai_x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    I understand that (and that was not in question 'coz comparing biased vs unbiased is not easy and they both have their pros and cons) BUT there is NO Redshift for LW (and if there would be one now it surely won't be mature and stable for many months in future) so if you are currently use octane 2.25 there is no much logic to not upgrade (esp 'coz combo price upgrade was just 75$) and get 30% faster renders on same hardware.

    With Juanjo working for Redshift I'm hoping there wlll be a lightwave version.
    Anyway the deadline for the sale is until today.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    as for noise, don't you guys use noise reduction in post?
    That would only work for simple scenes. For some complex scenes it just becomes too blurry using noise reduction. You lose a lot of detail and fidelity.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by samurai_x View Post
    With Juanjo working for Redshift I'm hoping there wlll be a lightwave version.
    Anyway the deadline for the sale is until today.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That would only work for simple scenes. For some complex scenes it just becomes too blurry using noise reduction. You lose a lot of detail and fidelity.
    Is Juanjo a freelancer? Because I haven't heard he works for any other than Otoy.

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