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Thread: The competition is releasing a roadmap of their future development

  1. #1
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    Angry The competition is releasing a roadmap of their future development

    https://vimeo.com/178392971


    That's what I call communication. Customers like that en respect that.

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    www.Digitawn.co.uk rustythe1's Avatar
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    well, its not much of a roadmap as it only shows things that are ready for next years release (betas already available) so in my eyes its no different to what LWG have done with the blog, it also dose not give specific dates the same as LWG have not, you have to remember LWG is rebuilding LW layout from the ground up where as software like Houdini is just being updated, so if you consider that then the LW team must be doing a grand job to have working beats of all the new features in less timeframe than others with bigger teams have created updates an additions, remember we saw working features when the first blogs were posted, so by the time we get final release we are going to have more, and that's in a version we were warned we might not see much of a functional change as end users as most of this release was under the hood.
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    Super Member vncnt's Avatar
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    Nice muscle system!

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    Lightwave is not in competition with Houdini. its like saying Ferrarri is in competition with Hyundai.

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    Used Houdini Indie for half a year but opted out after that, at the moment Houdini is not suitable if you are a single user or small team needing to have a quick turnaround.

    Glad to see they are working on that! Makes me very optimistic about their future and continued success!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by rustythe1 View Post
    well, its not much of a roadmap as it only shows things that are ready for next years release (betas already available) so in my eyes its no different to what LWG have done with the blog, it also dose not give specific dates the same as LWG have not, you have to remember LWG is rebuilding LW layout from the ground up where as software like Houdini is just being updated, so if you consider that then the LW team must be doing a grand job to have working beats of all the new features in less timeframe than others with bigger teams have created updates an additions, remember we saw working features when the first blogs were posted, so by the time we get final release we are going to have more, and that's in a version we were warned we might not see much of a functional change as end users as most of this release was under the hood.
    where has anyone said Layout is being rebuilt from the ground up? Do you think we are getting unlimited undo's this release?

    I respectfully have to disagree completely.
    Houdini has added entirely new dynamics systems, crowds and render capability in the last year. LW has done a slow incremental UPDATE as well. It took several releases to get constraints in bullet remember. (nuke actually had it before us)
    A new render engine and being able to stack deformers doesn't constitute a re-write...when you see changes to the undo system and a viewport capable of 10's of millions of poly's then you can call it a re-write, until then it is a much needed update.

    Also they did totally give a specific date....by the end of 2016, that's less then 4 months. I have not seen LW give any indication of dates...even to the year.
    Last edited by m.d.; 08-13-2016 at 11:51 AM.

  7. #7
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m.d. View Post
    where has anyone said Layout is being rebuilt from the ground up? Do you think we are getting unlimited undo's this release?

    I respectfully have to disagree completely.
    Houdini has added entirely new dynamics systems, crowds and render capability in the last year. LW has done a slow incremental UPDATE as well. It took several releases to get constraints in bullet remember. (nuke actually had it before us)
    A new render engine and being able to stack deformers doesn't constitute a re-write...when you see changes to the undo system and a viewport capable of 10's of millions of poly's then you can call it a re-write, until then it is a much needed update.

    Also they did totally give a specific date....by the end of 2016, that's less then 4 months. I have not seen LW give any indication of dates...even to the year.
    Agreed 100%. Suggesting that the quality and quantity of communication between LW3DG and LW customers is even remotely similar to that occurring between Side Effects and their Houdini customers is demonstrably inaccurate, bordering on absurd. Even confining the comparison to that sole instance of communication, Side Effects provided greater quantity and quality/specificity of info and commitments to customers in that one instance than LW3DG did altogether with the blog.
    Last edited by jwiede; 08-13-2016 at 12:47 PM.
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    www.Digitawn.co.uk rustythe1's Avatar
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    and new volumetric engine, new mesh engine, new materials, new light system, new buffer system, new fibber system, and then all the workflow and response improvements they have done, (including speeding up the viewport timeline with deformations to real time) and I would read the very first blog post about the borg queen as being that they are re writing the entire system from the ground up and replacing it modularly
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  9. #9
    www.Digitawn.co.uk rustythe1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    Agreed 100%. Suggesting that the quality and quantity of communication between LW3DG and LW customers is even remotely similar to that occurring between Side Effects and their Houdini customers is absurd, and trivially, demonstrably inaccurate. Even confining the comparison to that sole instance of communication, Side Effects provided greater quantity and quality/specificity of info and commitments to customers in that one instance than LW3DG did altogether with the blog.
    but you are only referring to communication this forum, the forum is here for users to interact with each other,
    if you email people directly, they will reply directly, people skype and all sorts, 2017 was shown in a limited fashion at recent shows, just because you have no info from these forums does not mean info is not out there
    (this reply is not supposed to shown shirty but multitasking so it might)
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  10. #10
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustythe1 View Post
    but you are only referring to communication this forum
    I never made any implication regarding these forums. I referred to the single instance of the Side Effects vimeo vs the entire LW blog (neither in any way related to these forums), and the totality of public communications both companies make to customers of their respective products.

    Comparing the level of communications to Houdini customers present in the Houdini website, versus that of LW3DG to LW customers in the Lightwave3D website, the difference is similarly stark, with Side Effects providing vastly greater quantity and quality/specificity of info on the product and its future, actual timely product updates, and so forth to their Houdini customers. Note that I am referring to the product websites themselves, not either set of forums. That said, though, the same vastly greater quantity and quality/specificity of customer communication does ALSO exist comparing Houdini vs Lightwave forums.

    This whole comparison is surreal. Side Effects, for many years now, have been the leading exemplars for customer communication and support in the 3D DCC market, even over Autodesk (arguably).
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  11. #11
    Carbon fibre dongleŽ 50one's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curly_01 View Post
    https://vimeo.com/178392971


    That's what I call communication. Customers like that en respect that.

    QFA. Their customer care is amazing, just look at their rvime channel, free webinars. What's more important they're istening to their customer base. I've heard people saying that because it'sferrari and we're Hyundai so we can't expect that level of commitment and engagement, very wrong assumption.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by rustythe1 View Post
    and new volumetric engine, new mesh engine, new materials, new light system, new buffer system, new fibber system, and then all the workflow and response improvements they have done, (including speeding up the viewport timeline with deformations to real time) and I would read the very first blog post about the borg queen as being that they are re writing the entire system from the ground up and replacing it modularly
    LW is making an incremental replacement of LW systems and LW next just seems to be the start of it. Yes, the renderer is new but lights and materials are simply part of the rendering system as they are shifting to PBR. The fiber system is not new, seems to be the same system, it just now uses a render primitive instead of volumetrics or a pixel filter. So the rendering end of Fiberfx has been upgraded. And while the speedup improvements were quite a jump from current LW, it is certainly not real time and its really hard to know how the improvements will rate in actual production. But Layout is certainly not rebuilt from the ground up, just certain aspects of it, mainly the renderer in this release.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by 50one View Post
    QFA. Their customer care is amazing, just look at their rvime channel, free webinars. What's more important they're istening to their customer base. I've heard people saying that because it'sferrari and we're Hyundai so we can't expect that level of commitment and engagement, very wrong assumption.
    My comment on Ferrari and Hyundai had to do with the idea that LW and Houdini are somehow in competition which really is not the case. It had nothing to do with communication, which you won't get any argument from me on LW3DG's lack of communication.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by rustythe1 View Post
    and new volumetric engine, new mesh engine, new materials, new light system, new buffer system, new fibber system, and then all the workflow and response improvements they have done, (including speeding up the viewport timeline with deformations to real time) and I would read the very first blog post about the borg queen as being that they are re writing the entire system from the ground up and replacing it modularly
    all for the most part render engine related....you can re-write the renderer, but with no lights or shaders...well kinda like a tree falling in the woods. Kray is writing his new render engine...new lights new shaders, doesnt mean he is re-writing LW. (Houdini has 3 in house render engines built in)

    We are slowly seeing it (the re-write) in the form of some mesh improvements and other great features....but I doubt the re-write will show its head this release.

    As far as communications and comparing it to the blog.....remember, Houdini just released the update details and committed to it by the end of 2016....4 months. Your seeing massive feature improvements with a date attached of just over 120 days,

    When was the LW release date for the big re-write with proper undos?.....when it's ready
    Last edited by m.d.; 08-13-2016 at 04:42 PM.

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    they should practice lean startup

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