Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: NON scaling of instances generated in point mode

  1. #1
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    14,741

    Question NON scaling of instances generated in point mode

    I was surprised to find out that Instance generated in POINT mode inherit the scaling of their Instancer object. (!!!)

    I figured that the points could move about, but that the instances would retain the scale of their source object, not the Instancer object.

    Besides jumping into nodal placement, is there a way to isolate the Instance from the scale of the Instancer object??

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Nonetheless, I decided to try to compensate for the scaling of the instancing object via nodes. One thing that threw me is: why are the scaling inputs GREEN (scalar?) rather than BLUE (vector)?

    It would seem possible to apply the reciprocal of the scale of the instancer to the STRETCH inputs of the instances, but that doesn't work...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	comp.jpg 
Views:	144 
Size:	33.7 KB 
ID:	133898
    Last edited by jeric_synergy; 08-02-2016 at 12:01 AM.
    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
    Praise to Buddha! #resist
    Chard's Credo-"Documentation is PART of the Interface"
    Film the cops. Always FILM THE COPS. Use this app.

  2. #2
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    14,741

    isolating Instances from scaling of instancer object

    Mike Green ( hattip!) was giving me some help with this, but I couldn't get his solution to work. Heading off to bed, if someone in Europe wants to take a stab at this, here's the Scene:

    InstancerScale2.zip
    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
    Praise to Buddha! #resist
    Chard's Credo-"Documentation is PART of the Interface"
    Film the cops. Always FILM THE COPS. Use this app.

  3. #3
    Worms no more! Free fun! Dodgy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    8,282
    It's because Stretch has 0 as its base line. You need to subtract <1,1,1> from the divide node to get the value you want.

    Mike
    Push the software, don't let it push YOU!
    My own plugins and work:www.mikegreen.name
    LaptopSetup:corei7 2.4GHz nvidia GT 650M 8Gig win8 64
    WorkSetup:core i7 3.4Ghz nvidia Quadro 2000 12Gig Ram Win7

  4. #4
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    14,741

    Success, due to Mike Green's intervention (hattip!)

    With Mike Green's tutelage in place, here's the working network. To recap:

    1. Scaling the Instancer Object to space or distribute the instances when placed in POINT MODE causes the instances themselves to scale.
    2. By using nodal compensation, you can scale the instances DOWN when the instancer object scales UP, leaving a net change of zero.
    3. BUT, it's a bit tricky, because the STRETCH parameter is not quite the same as SCALE, and starts at ZERO rather than 1 to indicate no change.


    OR, you can use DP INSTANCE, which has this facility built in, as a mode.

    Here's the scene. -InstancerScale2-MG.zip
    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
    Praise to Buddha! #resist
    Chard's Credo-"Documentation is PART of the Interface"
    Film the cops. Always FILM THE COPS. Use this app.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by jeric_synergy View Post
    With Mike Green's tutelage in place, here's the working network. To recap:

    1. Scaling the Instancer Object to space or distribute the instances when placed in POINT MODE causes the instances themselves to scale.
    2. By using nodal compensation, you can scale the instances DOWN when the instancer object scales UP, leaving a net change of zero.
    3. BUT, it's a bit tricky, because the STRETCH parameter is not quite the same as SCALE, and starts at ZERO rather than 1 to indicate no change.


    OR, you can use DP INSTANCE, which has this facility built in, as a mode.

    Here's the scene. -InstancerScale2-MG.zip
    I was going to suggest dp instance from the start, but I figured id let you struggle for awhile Just kidding, I thought you wanted to use the native.
    Dp instance doesnt look as pretty, but it is so far superior in so many ways that I have yet to even use lightwave instancer... other than to learn it enough to realize it was far inferior. I bet they copy some of its features in the next release... or at least hope they do. Especially getting the reference index nodal option.

  6. #6
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    14,741
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Charming View Post
    I was going to suggest dp instance from the start, but I figured id let you struggle for awhile Just kidding, I thought you wanted to use the native.
    Dp instance doesnt look as pretty, but it is so far superior in so many ways that I have yet to even use lightwave instancer... other than to learn it enough to realize it was far inferior. I bet they copy some of its features in the next release... or at least hope they do. Especially getting the reference index nodal option.
    You're right, it is inferior, and while the native interface may be standardized over various subsystems (Bullet, FFX, more?), the trouble is, that interface is CRAP.

    I could go on for quite a while, but let's just take ONE look, at the cherry on top of this crap sundae: the total lack of RMB functions in the Instance Generator list. W.T.F? It's the 21st Century, this looks like 1995.

    It's beyond comprehension. Did someone say "Yep, this is GREAT! Let's use this several times!"??? --It's not. It is BAD.

    I do want to nag them. I don't think they notice, but it keeps my arteries clear. Besides, if I keep a list, I can use it as resume material for some software company.

    +++++
    And I still don't know why in POINT mode the scaling of the instancer object would affect the instances, but I'm taking it as a given at this point.

    Plus, I got a lot of schooling on this from Dodgy, so it was quite educational.
    Last edited by jeric_synergy; 08-03-2016 at 12:44 AM.
    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
    Praise to Buddha! #resist
    Chard's Credo-"Documentation is PART of the Interface"
    Film the cops. Always FILM THE COPS. Use this app.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by jeric_synergy View Post
    .....And I still don't know why in POINT mode the scaling of the instancer object would affect the instances, but I'm taking it as a given at this point...
    Hi,
    the scaling of the instancer object always does affect the instances, not only in Point mode.
    And thatīs how it should work. Imagine a tree with instanced leaves. If you scale the tree you really want the leaves to grow also.

    ciao
    Thomas

    p.s.: another solution for your special case would be to use a morph instead of scaling your object.
    Web: www.dieleinwandhelden.com

    I use two pieces of the three-piece application with mocap module.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Leitner View Post
    Hi,
    the scaling of the instancer object always does affect the instances, not only in Point mode.
    And thatīs how it should work. Imagine a tree with instanced leaves. If you scale the tree you really want the leaves to grow also.

    ciao
    Thomas

    p.s.: another solution for your special case would be to use a morph instead of scaling your object.
    I have needed both functionality about the same amount of times. For motion graphics type fx (where instances are used a lot of times) it is very useful to be able to disconnect the scale from the instancer object. Luckily it can be done with nodes in both dp and native.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Charming View Post
    I have needed both functionality about the same amount of times. For motion graphics type fx (where instances are used a lot of times) it is very useful to be able to disconnect the scale from the instancer object. Luckily it can be done with nodes in both dp and native.
    Of course, we need both. I only wanted to explain why this is so.

    ciao
    Thomas
    Web: www.dieleinwandhelden.com

    I use two pieces of the three-piece application with mocap module.

  10. #10
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    14,741
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Charming View Post
    Luckily it can be done with nodes in both dp and native.
    With DP Instance you don't even need to get into nodes: there's a mode that supports the separation right in the plugin UI.

    Basically, Denis saw one would need it both ways and supplied the solution. Apparently this escaped the attention of LWG.
    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
    Praise to Buddha! #resist
    Chard's Credo-"Documentation is PART of the Interface"
    Film the cops. Always FILM THE COPS. Use this app.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by jeric_synergy View Post
    With DP Instance you don't even need to get into nodes: there's a mode that supports the separation right in the plugin UI.

    Basically, Denis saw one would need it both ways and supplied the solution. Apparently this escaped the attention of LWG.
    I know, but it can be done with nodes as well. Denis has seen a lot of things that have escaped not only LWG, but other companies as well. Shame that LWG does not make better use of him.

  12. #12
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    14,741

    Question So, why "Stetch" instead of "Scale"???

    So, Mike Green got me past that little puzzle (not a paying gig, just a question), but it raised another:

    WHY is the input to the Instance node STRETCH instead of SCALE??? They seem to rather accomplish the same thing, but stretch starts at zero while scale starts at 1.00.

    Why add this seemingly pointless complication?
    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
    Praise to Buddha! #resist
    Chard's Credo-"Documentation is PART of the Interface"
    Film the cops. Always FILM THE COPS. Use this app.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •