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Thread: Lightwave Bullet Dyamics "Convex Pieces" is Broken in layout 2015

  1. #1
    Super Member jboudreau's Avatar
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    Lightwave Bullet Dyamics "Convex Pieces" is Broken in layout 2015

    Hi Guys

    Looks like Dynamics is broken in 2015.3 especially when it comes to convex pieces. Collision is not working well with convex pieces in lightwave 2015, 2015.1, 2015.2, 2015.3 the pieces keep going through the floor no matter what I change also the visible representation of convex pieces is completely different from 11.6.3 to 2015.3.

    I opened the same scene in layout 11.6.3 and it works perfectly, there are no pieces that go through the floor. It works as it should and the visible display is correct as well. In 2015.3 the display looks like a bunch of dots what's changed and why am I getting these dots instead of how it use to look in 11.6.3?

    Here are some screen grabs showing you the difference

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Dynamics_Convex_Pieces_Difference.png 
Views:	141 
Size:	248.2 KB 
ID:	132252

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Dynamics_Convex_Pieces_Difference2.png 
Views:	109 
Size:	355.5 KB 
ID:	132253


    I'm going to keep on checking what else might be broken in 2015.3 regarding dynamics, Ill keep you all posted.

    Could anybody also please explain what's changed and how to fix these issues if possible?

    Thanks,
    Jason
    VFX Artist / 3D Animator
    Animatrix Productions

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  2. #2
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jboudreau View Post
    Hi Guys

    Looks like Dynamics is broken in 2015.3 especially when it comes to convex pieces. Collision is not working well with convex pieces in lightwave 2015, 2015.1, 2015.2, 2015.3 the pieces keep going through the floor no matter what I change also the visible representation of convex pieces is completely different from 11.6.3 to 2015.3.

    I opened the same scene in layout 11.6.3 and it works perfectly, there are no pieces that go through the floor. It works as it should and the visible display is correct as well. In 2015.3 the display looks like a bunch of dots what's changed and why am I getting these dots instead of how it use to look in 11.6.3?

    Here are some screen grabs showing you the difference

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Dynamics_Convex_Pieces_Difference.png 
Views:	141 
Size:	248.2 KB 
ID:	132252

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Dynamics_Convex_Pieces_Difference2.png 
Views:	109 
Size:	355.5 KB 
ID:	132253


    I'm going to keep on checking what else might be broken in 2015.3 regarding dynamics, Ill keep you all posted.

    Could anybody also please explain what's changed and how to fix these issues if possible?

    Thanks,
    Jason

    yes..I recall having some issues with that too...need to verify it and check again though.

  3. #3
    Super Member jboudreau's Avatar
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    Any luck Prometheus?
    VFX Artist / 3D Animator
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  4. #4
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jboudreau View Post
    Any luck Prometheus?
    To busy right now..

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    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    found a couple of minutes to check it...and ergo, somethings not right.

    what I did..

    added a cube in and a ground plane in layout directly with modeler tools, in 11.6.2
    fractured the cube in 20 pieces, made it parts body, convex pieces.. and ground plane static ..thatīs it, pieces hits the flor and do not fall through the groundplane.

    loaded that scene in lw 2015.3 32 bit, hit play and all is just the same..it works.
    now...I disabled the cube , created a new cube with modeler tools directly in layout 2015, fractured it the same as I did with 11.6.2 and made it parts body...then hit play, and when hitting the ground, some pieces are falling through the ground..all the settings is the same as the first cube..so I suspect something may have changed with the creation of the cube item, or the fracture tool?

    I can see that the polyamount isnīt the same for the cubes, so my thought is that something may have changed on fracture, and not actually convex pieces?

  6. #6
    Super Member jboudreau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    found a couple of minutes to check it...and ergo, somethings not right.

    what I did..

    added a cube in and a ground plane in layout directly with modeler tools, in 11.6.2
    fractured the cube in 20 pieces, made it parts body, convex pieces.. and ground plane static ..thatīs it, pieces hits the flor and do not fall through the groundplane.

    loaded that scene in lw 2015.3 32 bit, hit play and all is just the same..it works.
    now...I disabled the cube , created a new cube with modeler tools directly in layout 2015, fractured it the same as I did with 11.6.2 and made it parts body...then hit play, and when hitting the ground, some pieces are falling through the ground..all the settings is the same as the first cube..so I suspect something may have changed with the creation of the cube item, or the fracture tool?
    Hi thanks for testing this

    When you loaded the same scene into 2015.3 did you recalculate the dynamics, If not it's using the Dynacache file that was created from 11.6.3 so it would be the same no pieces going through the floor. In 2015.3 select your parts object and hit the reset button. Now recalculate the dynamics the pieces should go through the floor.

    Thanks,
    Jason
    VFX Artist / 3D Animator
    Animatrix Productions

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  7. #7
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jboudreau View Post
    Hi thanks for testing this

    When you loaded the same scene into 2015.3 did you recalculate the dynamics, If not it's using the Dynacache file that was created from 11.6.3 so it would be the same no pieces going through the floor. In 2015.3 select your parts object and hit the reset button. Now recalculate the dynamics the pieces should go through the floor.

    Thanks,
    Jason
    forgot to reset...just tested by reseting it, but only the cube fractured in 2015 falls through the ground, so the cube that was fractured in 11.6.2 works as it should.
    I also tested to run the free crackit plugin, which has a different fracture algotrithm, which I think also is nicer...it doesnīt fall through the ground either, so this leads me to think it is the fracture tool in 2015 that has some issues, and not the actual convex pieces mode in bullet.

  8. #8
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Edit...I was wrong...just moved the 11.6.2 cube..and it now also falls through the ground.

  9. #9
    Super Member jboudreau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    forgot to reset...just tested by reseting it, but only the cube fractured in 2015 falls through the ground, so the cube that was fractured in 11.6.2 works as it should.
    I also tested to run the free crackit plugin, which has a different fracture algotrithm, which I think also is nicer...it doesnīt fall through the ground either, so this leads me to think it is the fracture tool in 2015 that has some issues, and not the actual convex pieces mode in bullet.
    Hi, You are probably somewhat right but if you model a box and array on xyz 20,20,20 for example and set it to parts, The boxes go through the floor aswell, The only shape you can set so it doesn't go through the floor is Sphere and Mesh. All other go through the floor in 2015.3 but not in 11.6.3

    Thanks,
    Jason
    VFX Artist / 3D Animator
    Animatrix Productions

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  10. #10
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jboudreau View Post
    Hi, You are probably somewhat right but if you model a box and array on xyz 20,20,20 for example and set it to parts, The boxes go through the floor aswell, The only shape you can set so it doesn't go through the floor is Sphere and Mesh. All other go through the floor in 2015.3 but not in 11.6.3

    Thanks,
    Jason

    You could change the mass distribution to surface or vertices, I think that would help avoid the pieces falling through, but this seems like a bug that shouldnīt be there.

  11. #11
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    You could change the mass distribution to surface or vertices, I think that would help avoid the pieces falling through, but this seems like a bug that shouldnīt be there.
    Tested with a cube fractured again with crackit fracture and not the native ones, also falls through...
    Tested surface mass distribution...still some pieces falling through...
    Tested vertices mass distribution...a lot better, donīt see anything falling through, yet..who knows later on.

  12. #12
    Super Member jboudreau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    You could change the mass distribution to surface or vertices, I think that would help avoid the pieces falling through, but this seems like a bug that shouldnīt be there.
    Unfortunately I already tried that and it didn't work. If you set the mass distribution to vertices then the pieces will not roll or rotate like they should.

    Thanks,
    Jason
    VFX Artist / 3D Animator
    Animatrix Productions

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  13. #13
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jboudreau View Post
    Unfortunately I already tried that and it didn't work. If you set the mass distribution to vertices then the pieces will not roll or rotate like they should.

    Thanks,
    Jason
    yes..but it works, how natural and realistic is another thing but of course...it shouldnīt be like this, one would like it to behave as before...with proper roll and rotation as you said.

    think we need to report this, I really would like a fix on this, how would we else be able to efficiently work with the new bullet dynamics bones etc and work with convex pieces for faster simulations..it means one would have to step back to 11.6 and then you can not use the bullet bone stuff, ragdolls etc.

  14. #14
    Super Member jboudreau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    yes..but it works, how natural and realistic is another thing but of course...it shouldnīt be like this, one would like it to behave as before...with proper roll and rotation as you said.

    think we need to report this, I really would like a fix on this, how would we else be able to efficiently work with the new bullet dynamics bones etc and work with convex pieces for faster simulations..it means one would have to step back to 11.6 and then you can not use the bullet bone stuff, ragdolls etc.
    Unfortunately it's not just this that is broken in 2015.3, I have reported the going through the floor issue

    This is what I found that is broken in 2015.3 but not in 11.6.3

    - Parts go through floor no matter what settings you change for collision margin etc the only collision shape that works so the parts don't go through the floor is "sphere" and "mesh". (11.6.3 does not have any problems works great with all collision shapes)

    - Dynamic simulations are 7x slower calculating in lightwave 2015.3 (11.6.3 is 7x faster and does not have any problems works great)

    - Convex Pieces is not rendered or displayed the same as it was in 11.6.3. (2015.3 shows a bunch of dots - 11.6.3 shows a representation of the actual objects which is what it should do)

    - dynamics recalculate after removing from the dynamics panel or deleting objects in your scene that are in the dynamics panel but are not activated (This is broken in both 11.6.3 and 2015.3)

    There are also more issues that DrStrik9 found aswell you can view the post here http://forums.newtek.com/showthread....lues-%85/page2

    I'll update the list as I go

    Thanks,
    Jason
    VFX Artist / 3D Animator
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  15. #15
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    yeah...2015 did unfortunatly not start out well for me either, a lot of crashes with bullet in general..that was thoug fixed quite fast, then crashes with texture falloff, and I am now witnessing a huge amount of crashes on other areas that I just had to put on a seperate thread.

    So..unfortunatly the 2015 experience..hasnīt been that smooth, one would of course like to utilize the new stuff in there, but at the same time a bit frustrating when it disrupts your workflow in som many areas.

    I mainly bought in to it..not for the sake of the new features as a major part, but more of a good price deal, and to set me up for further lightwave versions which I got attracted to with the new blog stuff, other than that I might
    leave 2015 alone for a while and go back to 11.6.2 or 11.6.3 which has been quite stable compared to 2015.

    Modeler 2015 has been a bit more stable, and some new stuff with the texture options that I like, then again it seem to have broke how it chamfers edges and keeps or drops the selection after chamfer, which is completly different..I need it to behave as 11.6 did..so that is a minor issue too.

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