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Thread: Examples of the New LightWave Volumetric and PBR Engine

  1. #421
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    Just for clarification, the lighting uses DP's Sunsky, so not technically "native".

    I suspect producing that quality of atmospheric lighting from native LW would be quite difficult. It's definitely an area where LW needs serious improvement. DP's Sunsky is excellent, and LW users are lucky to have it available, no question. Still, it's not good that LW customers must rely on third-party plugins to get remotely-realistic atmospheric environments (and right now, we do, because the "native" offerings are... sub-par, to be kind).
    Not really difficult. In this image there isn't much visible sky..and at that level you could fake the sky with textured environment quite easy.
    Lighting would mostly just require manual color change with a good eye balling using a good kelvin temp.
    So with a good eye for it and perhaps a nice cloud photo ref..it's really not that hard.
    Sunsky makes it more accurate though and updates instantly in regards to every sunpitch change.
    Another not native thing...is the Gardner procedural..which gives the character of the cloud..that would be harder with native procedural. ..They don't have gain.offset etc. ....

    I agree with you though on its not good to rely on third party for a realistic sky..
    And do not even mention skytracer. .it's way to slow and not very good either.

  2. #422
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    final rendertime in the same resolution as the vpr draft, 37 min 49 seconds, while vpr finished in 2minutes in draft quality.

  3. #423
    Registered User ianr's Avatar
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    Hey Prom can we have a cooler plane?

    like this one the dragonfly by de havilland!Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #424
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianr View Post
    Hey Prom can we have a cooler plane?

    like this one the dragonfly by de havilland!Click image for larger version. 

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    Whaaat, and render again, are you crazy?
    You probably are..but so am I, so if you want to pick a fight...I guess I will have to find a better plane.

    So meanwhile, this will have to do as unrendered...from the five miles out album by Mike Oldfield, which I happen to have on vinyl and full album cover as well.


  5. #425
    Time Traveller Andy Webb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianr View Post
    Hey Prom can we have a cooler plane?

    like this one the dragonfly by de havilland!Click image for larger version. 

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    I actually live on the site of the old de Havilland factory, the flight tower and a runway is still here. The film "Band of Brothers" was filmed on the large area of waste land, that was part of the airfield and which is now a wild life reserve.
    Andy Webb

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  6. #426
    Time Traveller Andy Webb's Avatar
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    Got that a bit wrong, it was "Saving Private Ryan" :-)
    Andy Webb

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  7. #427
    Wikipedia says that both S.P.R. and B.O.B. were filmed in the same locations of Hertfordshire, they say the Hatfield Aerodrome, is this the same place?

  8. #428
    Time Traveller Andy Webb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djwaterman View Post
    Wikipedia says that both S.P.R. and B.O.B. were filmed in the same locations of Hertfordshire, they say the Hatfield Aerodrome, is this the same place?
    It sure is! I've cycled up the runway to where the film set was a few times, just a pile of rubble now.
    Andy Webb

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  9. #429
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    And back to clouds and semivolumetrics again, emulating a voxel grid, here I just used a flat polyplane divdided a few times and subpatch activated and arrayed in y axis, then using dissolve channel with hypertexture, so you could call it an emulation of
    voxel grids similar to houdiniīs cloud item, not at all the same, but it is using a grid, with an adaptable resolution to at least a division amount, however not on the y axis array, then I am adding sprites to each vertex.
    Tricky since you can not get a true volumetric light scattering going on in the clouds, so I had to fake with some gradients, both a light ref object for main lighting and a distance to ground object to get a darker shading towards the base of the clouds.

    So the main object is arrayed subpatched planes to form a cubic item which I then dissolve in various areas with hypertextures set to world coordinates, if we could have the new geo engine creating grids nondestructivly to generate voxel grids, that would be nice, and even better if we could take any object and voxelize it, so the cloud takes the main shape of donald trump as a threatening cloud, or something

    And no..unfortunatly this tech isnīt as smooth if you convert it to volumetric voxels, only looks good with hv sprites, and sorry..no cooler aeroplane than this, might through in some threatening spacecraft :9
    around 4 seconds of vpr draft refinement, maybe 15 minutes to render in hd res, with fairly low aa.






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  10. #430
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Seems like you've lost a lot of the clarity in the details of the cloud surface facing the camera (esp. around where the plane is in frame, but generally as well), versus the prior rendered example.
    John W.
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  11. #431
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    Seems like you've lost a lot of the clarity in the details of the cloud surface facing the camera (esp. around where the plane is in frame, but generally as well), versus the prior rendered example.
    Depends on type of clouds, in fact, the volumetric previous sample is often uncommon, and the smoother non detailed is often more common, at least over here at october november on certain times, when it has a certain level of water particles ..they are not that detailed, on summer days when clouds expand ..and form cumulus, they tend to get more detail, but this is not one of those clouds, what you see here as detail within the clouds is partly hypertexture gradient in luminosity channels, and also a "fake detail" in luminosity where I used various fractals, and I could simply increase the amount of that to get more detail, but it wouldnīt be accurate, that extra procedural is fake and isnīt doing anything with the actual hypertexture cut out or volume effect, it only changes luminosity to fake a volume lighting effect.

    You just canīt use the hypertexture effect itself..not too much, since that would change the general main turbulence at the edges of the cloud too much, by using a texture this way, I can get a look that isnīt based per point density as it is with my initial volume render...instead a look that flows more over the whole cloud area, though it isnī actual a volume changing effect, so it is not really realistic with light scattering or volume shaping, but it may work for some stuff.

    Heres two more detailed with changed fake Volume/lightscattering procedural in the luminosity channe, so t may render much faster and give a smoother look, the conīs are, no true light scattering, and no multiple scattering either and no true shadows, Remember...itīs just sprites, Not volume hvīs.








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  12. #432
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    So..any thoughts on the new volumetrics in terms of where it can be employed to be more effective more useful than using terragen 4 or the new vue for instance.

    Personally I donīt beleive it will be able to compete with terragen or vue for larger vista or panoramic full sky shots, probably not in terms of animated clouds that moves either, all that would probably requre infinite cloud layers and layers that is textured based.

    The question is if you would go for Lightwave and new volumetrics if you have a sort of flight shot where you need a dragon flying through clouds and also having the camera in there, as well as huge cloud pillar shots, I suspect the new volumetrics may be able to be a good tool for that, still remains to get stats on how the rendertimes will be when you move your camera inside clouds or close up.
    Then there are ofcourse fluids that may render faster and give better cloud density based on physicly correct fluid behavior and itīs bouyancy, where you may wanīt to go with stuff seen in liberty3dīs trainig material for faster clouds.

    for the extra realism punch, I suspect the scattering needs to use muliple scattering with some decent controls.
    Then you also got the baking method, which I wasnīt fond of, requires rescaling of the whole scene and adjusting based on tweak render test without an actual feedback.

    Prometheus Log at 2016-11-06, and I am still waiting........

  13. #433
    Stuck in a very big cube Waves of light's Avatar
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    Beautiful work. Looking forward to seeing what you will do with Volumetrics in LW2017.


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  14. #434
    Registered User kadri's Avatar
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    Yeah those are nice examples. Especially with the things we have in Lightwave right now. Curious for what will be possible with the new engine.

  15. #435
    Registered User 1r0nman's Avatar
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    Hey Prometheous, thanks for these examples, I too wonder if LW is the best solution for clouds. I'm always amazed at how easy it is to create believable clouds/skies in Vue 2015, but then again, the render times are not near as nice. That seems to be the trade-off with LW. I really need to try some of your methods here in LW
    ironman

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