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Thread: Micro 3D Printer print... Not good!! :(

  1. #1
    Super Member Paul_Boland's Avatar
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    Micro 3D Printer print... Not good!! :(

    Hi Folks.

    I got my Micro 3D Printer a few weeks ago and have been playing around with it. First thing I printed was a filament holder at medium quality and it turned out great! Today I created my first piece in Lightwave to be printed. I used the STL exporter plugin mentioned in a thread on these forums from the ChromeCow website. The model loaded into the Micro 3D software fine. I set it up and set it for BEST print quality!! Let's just say I am not impressed with the end result...

    I'm wondering how good that STL exporter really is? I tried loaded the STL file into an online STL viewer and the results were not great. I can't contact M3D about this at the moment as their website is down, but I posted the pic to their Facebook page. I'm not sure if it's the printer at fault, or if Lightwave exported a bad STL file.

    Anyone got any thoughts on this please?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    KnightTrek Productions
    http://www.knighttrek.com

  2. #2
    Nothing wrong with the STL exporter...been printing with it for a year, some pretty intricate and precise parts

    Most issues with printing come down to speed, temperature and acceleration....
    It takes a fair amount of trial and error to get these down....not sure what filament you are using but you may want to slow it way down and see the results you get....maybe by as much as half the speed

    Also just my opinion but do yourself a favor and look into simplify3d.....by far the best and simplest 3d printing software out there. Honestly makes a huge difference over manufacturers stuff....check that your machine is supported first

    What material are you using....what temps, and what is your printing speed set to, I might be able to help you dial it in
    Each different filament requires different speed and temps, for instance nylon to have to print at less then half the working speed for ABS or PLA

  3. #3
    And remember the STL is just the shape...
    It's your printing software that decides the tool path speeds and temps, that's were simplify3d is way way ahead of the factory stuff

  4. #4
    Super Member Paul_Boland's Avatar
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    Hi M.D.

    I checked out Simplify3D, it doesn't work with the Micro 3D Printer. I'm printing with PLA, light blue. I think the temperature is set to 210 (c? f?). I can slow down the print speed I think.
    KnightTrek Productions
    http://www.knighttrek.com

  5. #5
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    You're using plentiful of n-gons (show wireframe)...
    You're using probably not connected geometry.
    Try making it single connected mesh..
    You're using obsolete LightWave version (10.1).
    Dunno how it would work for us with new version..

  6. #6
    Super Member Paul_Boland's Avatar
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    I think perhaps there is too much geometry there for Lightwave and the printer to work with. Even through I have Boolean it all together, and tripled the polygons, when I zoom in I'm seeing rogue polygons inside the model. Perhaps this is confusing the printer??? Also, the STL exporter is throwing up an error message saying invalid argument number or something like that when I try to export the entire tripled model. I'm guessing the text is just too detailed for it all to handle.

    As for working with Lightwave 10, can't afford to upgrade so have to work with what I have.
    KnightTrek Productions
    http://www.knighttrek.com

  7. #7
    Looks like it will support it, probably no built in confuse though
    Edit "no built in presets",....stupid autocorrect
    http://micro3dfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=282

    Cura is also a very good open source alternative.

    210 is pretty good, but if you have lots of oozing or dependent on the PLA 190 can work as well....it's so dependent on brand etc
    Mesh lab should handle STL exports if LW 10 ain't cutting it....mesh errors can complicate things but the better slicers can handle it
    Last edited by m.d.; 07-02-2015 at 10:49 PM.

  8. #8
    it's a manhole cover ↓ JoePoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_Boland View Post
    I think perhaps there is too much geometry there for Lightwave and the printer to work with. Even through I have Boolean it all together, and tripled the polygons, when I zoom in I'm seeing rogue polygons inside the model. Perhaps this is confusing the printer??? Also, the STL exporter is throwing up an error message saying invalid argument number or something like that when I try to export the entire tripled model. I'm guessing the text is just too detailed for it all to handle.
    Uh, too much geometry for lightwave/printer to handle?? Really? Occam's razor suggests you don't have to look much further than your rogue geometry and error message. Care to post the model for inspection ?
    Last edited by JoePoe; 07-03-2015 at 12:10 AM.
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  9. #9
    Super Member Paul_Boland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePoe View Post
    Uh, too much geometry for lightwave/printer to handle?? Really? Occam's razor suggests you don't have to look much further than your rogue geometry and error message. Care to post the model for inspection ?
    I am becoming more and more convinced that this is the real problem, that there is bad geometry in there somewhere. I am going to try and see if I can sort it out. In the meantime, I have no problem with sharing the model, find it attached to this post. This model has all the elements on separate layers before they are Boolean together. If you want to try and sort it for me, that would be hugely appreciated, but please don't put yourself out on my behalf.

    Thanks.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    KnightTrek Productions
    http://www.knighttrek.com

  10. #10
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    After fast review... All sins mentioned already in post #5 plus geometry inside of geometry, and flying in air geometry (2nd layer)...

  11. #11
    it's a manhole cover ↓ JoePoe's Avatar
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    Okay, sooooo ...... Paul.

    I was hoping to see the model "as printed" to identify problems including anything that may have happened after the final Boolean (but before triple.... very hard to work with after that step).

    But we've got a bunch of stuff to talk about with the layered elements.

    Layer 3 is the only one that looks okay to me at this point.

    Layer 1: the two halves are not joined.

    Layer 2: You're missing the vertical face on the front of the floor. But also, the vertical front face of the side walls aren't joined to the floor. You can see it's one big edge.... should be two. Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2015-07-03 at 9.37.47 AM.png 
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ID:	128804. I mean one edge split in two sections vertically. Now there are two edges (one long and one shorter) right next to (on top of) each other.
    A lot of the elements in this layer are crisscrossing and intersecting each other. Some print software can handle that.... some can't. Did you boolean all of this stuff together? Do you even need the floor of this piece?? Looks like it's underneath the main shield level.

    Layer 3:

    Layer 4: you've got 5780 2-point polys. After getting rid of those Unify Polys got rid of 12 more polys. And there are some interior poly walls.

    So all of that needs to be addressed before the final Boolean. Which by itself can cause some issues. Remember to merge afterwards and check for left over "rogue" geometry .

    Edit: Aw heck....went ahead and fixed it up. Just a couple minutes.
    Layers 1-4 corrected. Layer 6 is all Booleaned together. Layer 7 all tripled.

    Edit 2: Almost forgot to post the thing . BTW, you've got some real delicate geometry in the D of Dungeoneer. Hopefully that's what puts the Micro in Micro3D. If this doesn't work then it's your speed and temp .

    Edit 3: Had to change one last trouble spot. See post below for .lwo.
    Last edited by JoePoe; 07-03-2015 at 10:54 AM.
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  12. #12
    Super Member Paul_Boland's Avatar
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    WOW!! Thanks for all this help, much appreciated!! I was STUNNED to find the two parts of the shield in layer 1 were not unified! I have fixed this and it is now one solid object. I have removed the backing bit on the portcullis door and also separated the frame and the portcullis into individual layers. I have removed the two point polygons from the KnightTrek Productions logo and unified the polygons, removing another twelve. I am attaching the new model file to this post if you care to check it out. Thank you all again for the help, much appreciated!!
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    KnightTrek Productions
    http://www.knighttrek.com

  13. #13
    it's a manhole cover ↓ JoePoe's Avatar
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    Okay, so I haven't looked at your revised object yet.... but I'm posting my fixed up version.

    There was one extra tricky spot. The bottom right sharp corner on the "u" of Dungeoneer was crossed over itself.

    Layer 1-4 = separate elements (Layer 2 all booleaned together & layer 4 reconstituted the tripled text back into quads and ngons).
    Layer 6 = Booleaned together.
    Layer 7 = tripled and ready to go.

    ------

    Looked at your revisions:
    So far so good.
    Layer one is fine.
    Layer two is fine.
    layer 3... all those tubes need to be booleaned together.
    layer 4.... fix the u
    layer 5.... remove internal polys in Rs Os and D.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by JoePoe; 07-03-2015 at 12:22 PM.
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  14. #14
    Super Member spherical's Avatar
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    Ignoring the bad model for the moment, as JoePoe is on that case, the issue I see with the print looks like the Prime/Suck values for the De-string function are not set correctly. This causes ooze and stringing that accumulates on the nozzle and eventually gets dragged off. These values differ from material to material and temperature to temperature.

    210C for PLA is okay. Might try going down as far as 195C. Be aware that feed rate (velocity of the head across the surface) has a relationship to temperature, because they have a relationship to flow rate. If you increase the feed rate, the temperature must go up. You're forcing goo through a tiny orifice. The faster the head moves, the more goo per second is required. The more goo per second, the lower viscosity it needs to be in order to apply the required amount through that tiny hole. Inverse is true as well. Slower means thicker or you get ooze and too much material deposition.

    Be wary of models found on Thingiverse. The majority are junk and need to be fixed before slicing. As you are learning, models need to be clean and watertight. No internal cruft. No holes. One solid surface or the slicer will get confused as to what is the inside and what is the outside.

    If your printer can accept standard G-code, get a copy of KISSlicer. It has a strict mesh analysis function that will balk when it sees cruft in a model and tell you what and where it is.

    Attached is an instruction sheet that I put together to calibrate KISSlicer to printers (or the other way around). The concepts in it should be able to be applied to any slicer.
    thin-wall-solid-cube-calibration.pdf
    Last edited by spherical; 07-03-2015 at 05:58 PM.
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  15. #15
    Kamehameha Chameleon BigHache's Avatar
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    On the point of models being "water tight" or manifold, layer 5 brings up problems. In Edge Mode bring up the Statistics panel. All edges should join to exactly 2 polygons. No more, no less.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The type knockouts generate an internal poly at the cut line when you extrude. Always gotta remember to delete them.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here you have internal polys below the shield surface. I've been able to get away with this on Shapeways, but my slicing software has never allowed me to have this. I haven't necessarily HAD to boolean everything, but I do need to at least move the surfaces to where they are exactly touching. Boolean/unifiying polys is a better practice, but internal polys should generate bad results.

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