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Thread: LW Brush vs. Modo

  1. #31
    Registered User Wickedpup's Avatar
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    Edit: You beat me to it.....but just as I suspected, nothing but hearsay.

    And in your rant video you used the tilde key to assign surfaces in both LW and Modo....but isnīt the default shortcuts Q and M respectively?
    Last edited by Wickedpup; 01-18-2015 at 11:53 AM.

  2. #32
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent3d View Post
    Prometheus, maybe you should think more before you write and shorten your remarks so there's less chance of you, or your actions, being misinterpreted.

    "stealing"? I never stated anything like that regarding Luxology and Lightwave. "...ripping off ...or doing something closely similar..." in regards to implementing a LW Motion Mixer style workflow (that Lux was not reponsible in developing) and repackaging them as something new and benefiting is not the same as stealing actual code, but you know that. The spirit of my video is that Modo, my favorite modeling application, became successful and came from the same base code or workflow philosophy as LW Modeler and 3rd Powers' LW brush is showing Modeler's possibilities in reaching or exceeding those same related frontiers.

    On a special note, it is extremely odd that it's ok to bash Lightwave on a regular basis, on it's forums, month after month, but to champion positive things like an upgrade or a new plugin somehow is wrong here. For everyone reading this, if you can't praise Lightwave related achievements openly on it's own forums, without a negative backlash by some, then where can you?
    think more?...I am not really writing a manuscript..and I just will not engage in spending 30 minutes about what I want to say..what I say pops up fast and I simply go with that directly when I write..but yeah, sometimes we all say the wrong things...or perhaps not formulated properly, and harder for me than you since your native language is american english I think?

    I write as I think directly, sometimes my keyboard canīt keep up with my speedy fingers, I do write quite fast..but the response from the keyboard is often to late, so it can be such errors I have to correct, along with some after checking to find out that it was actually miss spelled, or could have been formulated better, I donīt aim to think that much before I write..just to ensure someone isnīt missunderstanding me..and put my corrections in relation to some of their own suspicious thoughts..thatīs his or herīs problem..but it hasnīt anything to do with the truth from my pont of view. (Edited) point of view..fingers are so fast)

    I can understand you might have been a little offended, but I also thanked you for trying to showcase it and the effort you put in to at least making a vid of the differences.
    Stealing..that Might have been the wrong word formulated word from me, ripping of or using almost the same code perhaps... I felt you focused on a lot on that rant instead of the actual performance or toolbox differences between the lw brush and modo brush.

    Bashing of lightwave in general..or specific tool?..that is not my problem if you perceive it like that in these forums, that is up to lightwave group and webmasters to control..sure we users should be careful, but not to the point to agree to every darn thing ok.

    I try to keep a straight on bashing on feature lack, not lightwave as a whole, you saw in my youtube comment how I went about talking about the differences between modo voxels and lightwave voxels, I did not go lightwave Overall as better than Modo overall.(or vice versa ..edited) .if I engage in a tool comparison over here, it is mostly because I want to shred a light on how lightwave tools can be improved, and it is just recently I have tested modo, so I havenīt bashed around much at all otherwise.

    As I have said before and in the youtube comment...I really prefer to work in lightwave, since it feels faster..more direct and structured the way I want it..so it has been, but I also think that the latest releases do not meet my expectations in the same way they have been doing before..and Modo has more of implemented tools in the way I would like to see in lightwave..that I hope will change....and when lw brush shows up..well thatīs nice, but I actually excpected a sculpt tool nativly within my upgrade account...and that I have been waiting for not just for 2015..but even many versions back since it was showcased in core, I canīt control how they develop it, but I think I am entitled to say something about it..if I think it would be good to have a sculpt tool natively..otherwise it is just the emperorīs new clothes kind of censorship, where it comes to such ridiculous...chime in on everything good about it, that I could just skip entering this forums and stop being active at all.

    I reckon I might have to Edit this and one thing you are absolutly right about, I tend to write too long sentences, it could be that just because I can write very fast, I somehow feel that while I am at it....lets write a lot
    someday I will become demented, and I will forget about the fingering technique (not sure that is the right word?) and go for hitting the letters with one finger only...then it will take too long time and my postīs will be shorter.

  3. #33
    ..since 4.0 and beyond brent3d's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonwestmas View Post
    That's the thing, 90% of the time you were NOT talking about how great LW brush was and how it compared to modo sculpt tools. Here's my summary of what you said and compared it to my reaction. . . So instead I hear this very bias and over generaized labeling about how modo was immitating good ideas from lightwave and turning it into a bloated imitation game, attacking the Foundry's supposed developmental direction with it; and how it is based on the same code and we should all pay attention. Just because there are a lot of little similarities between applications does not mean at all that the overall workflows are similar. I get this kind of talk from all sorts about zbrush from 3dc people about how pixo is scamming from Pilgway, I simply don't care and usually just ignore it. Zbrush works for a lot of people, attacking it's supposed direction development wise makes no sense at all. It makes you all look like a bunch of ill-informed goons and casts a ugly light on this community.

    Then you really started to loose traction with me when you mentioned how zbrush and autodesk applications are all bloated and immitating ideas and making those ideas less useful because of their bloatiness. I still don't know what "Bloated" means in this context. I guess it means the program is less useful and interactive. Common people, be specific in your criticisms. People that do this kind of socialized developmental critiquing sound like bickering old men when you try to bash successful cg tools. I guess people do this because there are some apps. that might be a little scary to look at for whatever reason. This makes me feel like we are back in the 40's trying to segregate everybody and trying to herd them into the Freedom camp while we are painting the enemy "dark shades of red or whatever". Is that the reality we are in here? Any successful company out there has to get trash talked these days it seems. Is that really the way to get lightwave to be where you all want it?

    So in my reply to your video above. . . I'm a believer in offering alternatives when I think the current state of things are going nowhere fast. I say be specific in your workflow context, because if you are not using the correct tools for the jobs you are doing you aren't going to use them for what the developer intended. You appear to be taking the position of saying that the developers don't know the technology they have and are turning good tools into bloated-ware. Well be more specific about that because I don't buy it and your current attitude about successful software. It's successful for a reason and I think that is because it is being used correctly. Again similarities between applications do not necessarily imply that the features are being used in the same workflow context. People say these applications are competing but after using many of them over the past 15 years I see their strengths and weaknesses and they are all quite different in a workflow and job context. Did I mention workflow context?

    Sorry if i totally missed your ligitamate points I didn't see many of them because you muddied the waters with me. You were spot on about how cool LWBrush was in the interactive, creative freedom sense which is why I bought into it. But not every toolset is intended for creative freedom like fluid paint, often cg tools are not paint and brushes, but hammers and screw drivers that are intended to make the current project more stable and so fluid changes are less likely. Your reasoning appeared to be that of, oh we see this hammer and brush have handles so they must be intended to be used for the same purpose and we should get the same result. . . but somehow it doesn't work out. Why doesn't it work that way that I intended there are similarities after all, well it must be because the competing software is bloated, too huge and too successful. We need to go back to our roots and tell LW3DG and the community that we need to unionize and fight back? Seems like a lot of wasted effort, let's instead talk about what tools work best for and how we can use them together.

    I'm not belittling you, rather I am belittling this attitude that I have just described, that is on all sides and I hope to get rid of it some day. Of course I can't do that alone.
    Thanks for clarification on your position, but it's still not what I was really talking about in my video but that's okay.
    "bloated" is from the perspective of a team that is only using Modo specifically for it's origins as a modeling, sculpting, painting software, and in reference to the Modo Ui as the software has grown from a modeling application to a full 3D Suite (with a unified workspace). So if my studio is still purchasing Modo for its modeling tools, but more stuff keeps getting added to the app, then it can easily be seen as bloated or convoluted for our needs. So our focus is shifting more towards Lightwave's Modeler, which puts the focus back on it's development, plugins, and future possibilities.

    Both of us have been doing this stuff for 15+ years so it's cool to disagree or misunderstand. Lets see what the LW3DG and 3rd Powers have in store for this year, should be interesting since 3rd Powers recently announced that all the LW Brush tools will soon be able to work with Modelers Symmetry tool and that will be great.

  4. #34
    ..since 4.0 and beyond brent3d's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wickedpup View Post
    Edit: You beat me to it.....but just as I suspected, nothing but hearsay.

    And in your rant video you used the tilde key to assign surfaces in both LW and Modo....but isnīt the default shortcuts Q and M respectively?
    Heresay? your the one who doesn't know about it...so do your research.

    About the assigning surfaces, the point wasn't specifically about the tilde key (which is my own choice) but that the tool workflow access is identical, which is neither bad or good, just the same.

  5. #35
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent3d View Post
    Thanks for clarification on your position, but it's still not what I was really talking about in my video but that's okay.
    "bloated" is from the perspective of a team that is only using Modo specifically for it's origins as a modeling, sculpting, painting software, and in reference to the Modo Ui as the software has grown from a modeling application to a full 3D Suite (with a unified workspace). So if my studio is still purchasing Modo for its modeling tools, but more stuff keeps getting added to the app, then it can easily be seen as bloated or convoluted for our needs. So our focus is shifting more towards Lightwave's Modeler, which puts the focus back on it's development, plugins, and future possibilities.

    Both of us have been doing this stuff for 15+ years so it's cool to disagree or misunderstand. Lets see what the LW3DG and 3rd Powers have in store for this year, should be interesting since 3rd Powers recently announced that all the LW Brush tools will soon be able to work with Modelers Symmetry tool and that will be great.
    Thanks for your honesty and perspective on things. I'm glad that what I wrote was not what you were trying to say. I did my best not to get too personal about it. Rather I'm trying to be logically sensible. I too admire the flexibility and direct power in smaller specialized toolsets. I think that making these rather huge applications which Modo development is indeed trying to become are going to have growing pains such as the ones you are talking about. I just feel differently about these large applications than others do. I see them as a totally different breed of machine is all, not something to be frowned upon. But yeah we'll see.
    Last edited by jasonwestmas; 01-18-2015 at 12:32 PM.
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  6. #36
    Registered User Wickedpup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent3d View Post
    Heresay? your the one who doesn't know about it...so do your research.

    About the assigning surfaces, the point wasn't specifically about the tilde key (which is my own choice) but that the tool workflow access is identical, which is neither bad or good, just the same.
    Nah, sorry! It's not me making claims as to what have been said. Nor would I make such claims without knowing that I could back it up. You clearly think otherwise, which IMO only says something about your character....but that is your prerogative. Just don't expect me to believe you....frankly not my problem if you got caught with your pants down
    Last edited by Wickedpup; 01-18-2015 at 05:20 PM.

  7. #37
    Defender of Mankind Emmanuel's Avatar
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    I just dont care if people know that Lux came from NT back then, why would anybody care ? It has no influence on either software.
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  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by brent3d View Post
    Totally disagree, LW users need to be excited and enthusiastic about Lightwave and it's future (which is the responsibility of the LW3DG). Brad from Lux was always like that when at LW and he carried that massive enthusiasm to Modo and rode it to success, Proton did an excellent job at this, and now Lino is doing is best to keep users looking forward. But it's not blind optimism to be enthusiastic about Lightwave, but the process of generating momentum behind it. Also, if your on a specific apps forum shouldn't we expect the topics to be centric to that app, why would there be anything different?
    Yeah I agree. I was trying to point out the positive in what you did which was to at least take some action. Because it happens here, people will make comparisons. And you responded by breaking out both tools, took some of your valuable time to demonstrate similarities and differences. Adding this kind of thing to a discussion is positive.

    In a perfect world sure, we should all just leave other tools out of discussions. But that never happens. And the mods are usually very liberal. If they were being literal they'd delete this thread. But they realize they have to exercise some form of judgment, and they do. Matt and the team are pretty cool about things here and they should be given that credit.

    My opinion is simply this. If you are going to do it, leave out the rants. Leave out any bias and if you are going to demonstrate two tools to it fairly and professionally without any slant.

    I think people would get more out of it.

    I think if you are going to talk about other software at all, then don't do it in a bashing way of any kind here. To me that is just unprofessional.

    But even with that, I still thank you for taking the time. It is more than anyone else did.

  9. #39
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent3d View Post
    Thanks for clarification on your position, but it's still not what I was really talking about in my video but that's okay.
    Brent, LWBrush was neither the topic which received the greatest continuous discussion time in your video, nor the greatest total discussion time among the topics you mentioned. You might believe that LWBrush was what you primarily talked about in the video, but there's not much objective basis to support that position. It felt like the rant was the main subject, not LWBrush. If that was your intent, so be it, but it doesn't sound like that was your intent.
    Last edited by jwiede; 01-19-2015 at 10:14 PM.
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  10. #40
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    Such long posts from people with thousands of posts.
    Don't you guys go out and enjoy whats outside?

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  12. #42
    Carbon fibre dongleŪ 50one's Avatar
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    I like how how you all complain about people bashing LW(ex users, or ex users-now-Modo-users) yet you all bash MODO hehe.



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  13. #43
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenlaw View Post
    Today I went out bicycling with my family. Wheee!
    I was watching the Seahawks luck out (seriously, GB dominated) and win the NFC championship and a Super Bowl berth.

    They earned it, but luck was really, REALLY on their side.

    #gohawks
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  14. #44
    Registered User Wickedpup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 50one View Post
    I like how how you all complain about people bashing LW(ex users, or ex users-now-Modo-users) yet you all bash MODO hehe.
    Words of contemplation for certain individuals here.......

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent3d View Post
    in regards to implementing a LW Motion Mixer style workflow (that Lux was not reponsible in developing)
    Brent,

    If you're going to post things like that, please take the time to inform yourself (ftp://ftp.newtek.com/products/LightW...xer_Manual.pdf). In that pdf you can see Mark Brown was the programmer of Motion Mixer.

    Guess who is in charge of all the animation system in Modo?

    I only point this so others that doesn't know the previous relation between LightWave and Modo's developers at least got the facts right.

    Cheers.

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