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Thread: FReq: Better "Build Null Object" dialog -- really, just one thing

  1. #1
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    Angry FReq: Better "Build Null Object" dialog -- really, just one thing

    I really h8 the "Build Null Object" dialog-- it's like it's designed to slow you down.

    The thing I dislike most about it is that it starts 'closed', it's like a g.d. splash screen that does nothing but keep you from what you want to get at.

    Next is the use of a menu for nine choices, which isn't horrible BUT there's PLENTY of space to make the choices buttons, which would be fast, instead of a menu, which is always slow.

    THEN, the fact that I can't just immediately adjust the colors, but have to 'turn them on' first. Idiocy! "HEY, SOFTWARE!!! IF I'M ADJUSTING SOMETHING, I WANT IT ON!!!! CAN YOU HEAR ME????"

    Would it HURT to adjust the Text Color if there's no text? I mean, if there's no text, it's INVISIBLE, right? So I should be free to adjust it, right?

    So, that's the existing..... thing, as is. It could also use presets, so users wouldn't have to define the damn nulls repeatedly.



    ---Gahd, it's just so bad.
    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
    Praise to Buddha! #resist
    Chard's Credo-"Documentation is PART of the Interface"
    Film the cops. Always FILM THE COPS. Use this app.

  2. #2
    "OH NO!", Joseph Joestar ncr100's Avatar
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    Good find! I was unaware the rest of that dialog was available. I suppose I am one to ignore buttons named "Edit" since they mean "cut / copy / paste" to me.

    Perhaps "Edit" could be renamed "More" or "Advanced".

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    -Nick
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  3. #3
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    Cool absolutely not

    Quote Originally Posted by ncr100 View Post
    Perhaps "Edit" could be renamed "More" or "Advanced".
    NO! It should be eliminated.


    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
    Praise to Buddha! #resist
    Chard's Credo-"Documentation is PART of the Interface"
    Film the cops. Always FILM THE COPS. Use this app.

  4. #4
    "OH NO!", Joseph Joestar ncr100's Avatar
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    lol ok ok Jeric!

    My idea: "LW2015.2 - Streamlined UI - with no icons and no text. Just clean buttons! You click on something, we decide what you get!"

    And all new error notification dialogs (my favorite): "That didn't work. Try something else."

    -Nick
    audio: Ö ¤ Py

  5. #5
    Super Member Kryslin's Avatar
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    Hmm.... I think I could come up with something. I realize that you'd want this to be a native solution, but to come up with Build Null Object 2.0 in lscript shouldn't be that hard...

    Before I add the remainder of the null options to my "Add Child Null" script (which only needs a few changes to become "Add Null Object 2.0"), would automatic parenting to a selected object be deemed useful (You have an object selected, run the script. The generated null is automatically parented to the selected null)?

    This is what is has right now...


    I would have to add Filled and X-Ray checkboxes, plus the label, justification, Draw Line To, Colors (which, in lScript, are problematic) and Opacity, but I think I can keep everything neat and tidy. LSID needs a grid to snap things to, like #Develop and MS Visual Stuido, though. Would make things a bit less haphazard.

    *edit* LSID is proving to be recalictrant (and I've got a bug to report). But things look decent, if a bit crowded onto one panel...
    Last edited by Kryslin; 12-31-2014 at 02:31 PM.
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  6. #6
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    Lightbulb

    Kryslin, since there's going to be a UI, just make "[X] Auto-Parent"? an option, and default to ON. (Best if it remembers what the user prefers.)

    I'd also add a "# of nulls to add" field, so you could add more than one at a go, and a "[X] Chain Nulls?" option to automatically create a hierarchy. Since you asked.

    Oh, and an "auto-name" button, which would give the null a name that relates to the currently selected item, WHETHER OR NOT the null will be the child of the item. For instance, if the Camera were selected, clicking the "Auto Name" button would fill the name field with, sayyyy, "Camera- Null". Note that this is an immediate one-shot action , not a state, and the user can alter the name to whatever s/he prefers after the auto-name fills the naming field.

    And you can color the null in the UI and SE, right?

    ++++++++
    ncr, actually, my request/rant would make the UI more busy, since it ALWAYS displays the full dialog, but more efficient, since you no longer have to expand the dialog Every Damn Time.
    Last edited by jeric_synergy; 12-31-2014 at 06:52 PM.
    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
    Praise to Buddha! #resist
    Chard's Credo-"Documentation is PART of the Interface"
    Film the cops. Always FILM THE COPS. Use this app.

  7. #7
    Super Member Kryslin's Avatar
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    Everything you want is doable; I've already got a prototype crashing my machine. (The interface looks nasty at the moment; I want it creating nulls, coloring them, and drawing lines between then before I polish it up, though... )

    And here's the results of tonight's work:


    I left space at the top for the multiple/chain nulls dialog boxes; I wanted mainly to get the basics working with this. If it ever goes into release, the requester title bar will be changed. I know it works in 11.6.2, mainly because the internal debugger is borked in 2015/2015.1 (and yes, it's been reported). I'll be testing it in the morning in 2015.1

    (And never underestimate the power of graph paper, pen, and ruler for UI design...)

    Until then, Happy New Year!
    Last edited by Kryslin; 01-01-2015 at 12:13 AM.
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  8. #8
    Super Member Kryslin's Avatar
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    I wanted to drop this in a private message, but you can't attached a file to a pm.
    So, without further delay, here is "Advanced Build Null Object 1.0 Beta"
    It is known to work under 11.6.2, and 2015.1.
    -It is feature complete.
    -If you want the colors to actually write to the plugin, you'll have to check the boxes.
    -When adding an item hape to multiple nulls, it applies to all of them. Likewise label and draw to.
    -make null chain makes a hierarchy of null.
    -Parent to selected is automatically checked if you have a scene item selected. It is not recommend to check this if you don't have something selected.
    -Most of the lscript deals with 2 things - the UI, and adding an itemshape to a null.

    Test it, try to break it, let me know what needs tweaking / fixing.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Kryslin; 01-01-2015 at 02:53 PM.
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  9. #9
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    nailed it

    Wow, Kryslin, that's almost exactly what I was envisioning! And you've put the lie to "color must be selected to adjust", ::cough:: Mike Wolf ::cough::.

    A couple things (of course, it's ME):
    • I suggest moving the "Add Item Shape" enable checkbox to below the first division line, because it is associated with the Shape controls.
    • There are nine possible item shapes, but one of them is "NONE", which IMO can be removed (since one would simply disable the option, and it's confusing). Eight options is right on the edge, but I think this would be faster if the choice was implemented as buttons instead of a menu.
    • The auto-naming function doesn't work as I'd expected-- in my mind the new null's name would be based on the currently selected Item. So if CAMERA were the selected item, the null's name would be "Camera-null", and perhaps as you have done, if auto-child were on, "Camera-null-child(n)".

    Click image for larger version. 

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    But all in all, so much better than the native version! I've already replaced the native version with yours. THANKS!!!


    EDIT: oh, and I'd add an "Auto-Enable" feature for the colors if the user adjusts them.
    Last edited by jeric_synergy; 01-01-2015 at 03:29 PM.
    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
    Praise to Buddha! #resist
    Chard's Credo-"Documentation is PART of the Interface"
    Film the cops. Always FILM THE COPS. Use this app.

  10. #10
    Super Member Kryslin's Avatar
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    I think I can manage all of the above, though I would argue about removing the "None" item shape; Nulls without LW_Itemshape are still visible in the viewports; setting the item shape to None hides the item in the viewport. It does have it's uses, though what I've seen it's mainly in rigging.

    I tired to keep all the controls that affect the overall plugin in one area; Add Item Shape, Parent to Selected, Multiple Nulls...

    I've got a bit of wiggle room in the UI to move things around, as my spacing is not terribly even, vertically.

    As far as making buttons, out of the drop down... I didn't stray too far from the established convention of the existing UI, so that it would feel familiar to people using it. It could be done with the radio button control ( ctlchoice )

    I've got the mods to the UI made, and it wasn't easy to fit it in there...I'll have it up tomorrow.
    Last edited by Kryslin; 01-01-2015 at 05:24 PM.
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  11. #11
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    You could also argue that leaving the "(none)" option does the boring labor of adding LW_Itemshape and gives the user the option of changing it themselves later -- so there's two reasons, --I'm convinced.

    But, since I believe the LW convention of menus for small numbers of choices was always a bad idea, I'd still lobby for making the shape choices buttons, because buttons are faster, and the user can see all the options without having to click, and merely has to LOOK.

    I respectfully disagree about the "enable shape" option-- while it of course affects the 'overall' null, it is much more closely aligned to the SHAPE options than the global concept.
    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
    Praise to Buddha! #resist
    Chard's Credo-"Documentation is PART of the Interface"
    Film the cops. Always FILM THE COPS. Use this app.

  12. #12
    Super Member Kryslin's Avatar
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    If I've learned any one thing about this exercise...

    lScript needs a better way of generating an interface dialog.



    Current UI. Will brainstorm ideas at work for making changes to the UI a little less tedious...

    >bleep< work. Ideas implemented now. Script updated. requested changes to UI altered dialog somewhat. Should look pretty.

    FILE : BNO2.7z
    Last edited by Kryslin; 01-01-2015 at 10:06 PM. Reason: Added file - updated UI
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  13. #13
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    Looks perfect!

    ......Ummmmm..... no really....nahhhh, it's fine.....really? Welllllll.....

    Can the Quantity field be constrained integers? I know the evaluation will be integer.

    Yes, I am terrible. ---It really looks good, like what "Build Null" should have been in the first place!
    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
    Praise to Buddha! #resist
    Chard's Credo-"Documentation is PART of the Interface"
    Film the cops. Always FILM THE COPS. Use this app.

  14. #14
    Super Member Kryslin's Avatar
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    The edit didn't go so well...

    Updated version of the lscript. I'll see what I can do about the quantity box, but I may be up against lscript on that one...(silly, stupid me. ctlnumber changed to ctlinteger...)
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Kryslin; 01-01-2015 at 10:05 PM. Reason: Additional Material
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  15. #15
    Super Member Kryslin's Avatar
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    I've got the dropdown -> buttons conversion done, made it easier to adjust things in the UI, and trapped a few of the peskier User Events and things set out of range... I'll have the last version of this posted by tomorrow morning.
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