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Thread: LW Brush sneak peek

  1. #76
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightscape View Post
    That's pretty common other appz as well. Some devs are just flaky. So its not exlusive to lightwave. We use 3dmax and maya but we really only use the top 5 must have plugins. We don't rely too much on thirdparty plugin because of the same concerns and because some functionality are native already. Ofcourse with the price tag of top tier 3d appz they should have it. With lightwave being below 1k its understandable that things move slower.

    Brent, plugin provide THE Functionality.
    True...but that was not the perspective I was looking at it from, more like..should the lightwave team disregard developing a brush tool out of the box..because there is a third party plugin, or should it be considered a tool that deserves to be made within the lightwave group to ensure we indeed can access that tool, regardless of what happens to the third party developer, the 3dmax,maya VS lightwave..that wasnīt my perspective on it.

  2. #77
    They did that with instancing. There was HDInstance, then Denis' plugins and then the native option. I guess it depends if they see a tool as being so essential that it should be native.
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  3. #78
    gettin all wavy rwhunt99's Avatar
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    I like these tools, what bothers me is after buying them; when you upgrade, sometimes you end up having to upgrade all your plugins especially if your version won't work with the latest. With them built in, the upgrade takes care of all that with one price. With the extensive work (supposedly) being done to modeler, I would be leery of shelling out for these plugins and then having to upgrade again for the next version of LW.
    Another thing when LWgroup came out with it's plugins (specifically chronosculpt), it was like giving you a plugin (instancing) and then saying, you have to buy this plugin to get it to work right for you. Just seems a conflict of interest to me. I could see it built in and selling it as a stand alone for people with other packages, but it just didn't sit well with me.
    Rob Powers said he was working hard to open up with the port to python for outside parties to get involved with creating plugins for Lightwave and that seems to be working out pretty well. I just worry that the product itself might be devolving, especially with the latest price decrease. Although for me it just seems to be a point upgrade, not a full upgrade and the price change kind of justifies that thinking.

  4. #79
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ernpchan View Post
    They did that with instancing. There was HDInstance, then Denis' plugins and then the native option. I guess it depends if they see a tool as being so essential that it should be native.
    As far as I know...these major General apps do have a sculpt tool...

    Maya
    houdini
    cinema 4d
    modo
    blender
    3d max..(I think)

    Lightwave doesnīt, not sure why it havenīt reached the state of not being out of the box yet, at some point they must have sort of recognized it as valuable (being in core)
    Has there been too much difficult coding in the implementation? then again 3rd powers seem to show otherwise...but maybe his tools showing up..just recently became possible thanks to the recent lightwave changes? I donīt know?

    Then we have chronosculpt....

    I recall asking if chronoculpt shouldnīt be implemented in lightwave directly, but some guys at the lw team said ..no it aint gonna happen, then I asked myself why? is the foundation core in Lightwave limiting it ..not making it possible? or is it a marketing approach to withhold that tech, just to be able to sell it as a plugin available for other platforms too...if so, that is an approach I am not comfortable with, but..itīs not my decision how they conduct business and I can only speculate about it, I am not asking for everything in chronosculpt to be Inside of Lightwave (or maybe I do) the main functionality for sculpting at least.

    Time will tell within the next releases I think.

    the sculpting tool between modo and houdini, based on my testing..modo feels much, much better, max or cinema I havenīt tried...and maya was a long time I got a chance to test anything in, I suspect cinema4d sculpting might be the best one out there...based on what I can see solely though.
    zbrush,3dcoat,sculptris..or wings3d I will count out of the discussion..since they are mostly just modeling and specialized at what they do.

  5. #80
    Blender sculpt is like a very light weight Mudbox or Zbrush.

    Maya is a geometry sculpt and I suppose you could use it in a very limited way for sculpting on a high res mesh. But I find it handy for fine tuning organic modeling.

    The sculpt function in this plugin to me looks more like drag net. I am not really sure how it is different. I'd have to see more. But from the video it looks like the same circular fall off you get with point radial.

  6. #81
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    yeah...the sculpt function looks more like a sculpt dragnet function..but I donīt know really, if it actually can sculpt like modo or cinema, at a lower mesh level perhaps...
    I just tested modo recently for the first time with sculpting..and I like the base function of it at least..sculpts decently, and the way I would want it in Lightwave..it would help out so much for rock and terrain work, if you are obsessed with that...that is.

    wings3d has a tweak tool, like lightwaves tweak tool, but you can set a magnet falloff..by right clicking and set the radius..so you have a sort of soft selection influence when you pick and drag the tweak, so it looks similar to
    this simingly dragnet function from 3rd powers.
    The problem with wings3d sculpting..it is too slow on higher mesh detail.

    Michael

  7. #82
    WOW! Just saw this thread, seems like a fast plugin indeed!

  8. #83
    Senior Constrictor Netvudu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonwestmas View Post
    ...Usually the deal with Maya and Max is that it has everything you need and it does it in a fair amount of time. If you want the really good stuff that does the same thing but faster you can do that for a price. But what I don't see in Maya and Max is a completely new set of deformers sold as third party. That stuff should be considered core and rudimentary....

    ...Autodesk tools are more expensive but have core tools that users don't have to pay additional money for, some of us already know all that...
    that is simply not true.

    Almost all the MAX plugins I mentioned above have functionality that you can NOT do in vanilla MAX. Thereīs no fluids container sims in Max, nor point duplication at render times. Some of that stuff is NOT there.
    Thereīs no crowd simulations module in Maya at all. You cannot replicate what Myarmy or Golaem does. You can instance character over particles, which is very very far from a state machine.
    So, no....not every functionality is there. In fact I would go as far as saying that Max is way more expensive and has off-the-shelf LESS functionality than Lightwave by far.
    Last edited by Netvudu; 12-28-2014 at 05:06 PM.
    3d animation? Hah! Did you take a look through your window?thereīs plenty of it...and pre-rendered!!

  9. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Netvudu View Post
    that is simply not true.

    Almost all the MAX plugins I mentioned above have functionality that you can NOT do in vanilla MAX. Thereīs no fluids container sims in Max, nor point duplication at render times. Some of that stuff is NOT there.
    Thereīs no crowd simulations module in Maya at all. You cannot replicate what Myarmy or Golaem does. You can instance character over particles, which is very very far from a state machine.
    So, no....not every functionality is there. In fact I would go as far as saying that Max is way more expensive and has off-the-shelf LESS functionality than Lightwave by far.
    i think you both have valid points
    i've used max since 1999...it's NEVER shipped with a good renderer..even mental ray right now pretty much sucks for a lot of things..it's no where near modo...so i move most of my stuff out of max and render in modo for example.
    so yeh 3ds max in MY opinion doesn't have a decent renderer as you buy the base app.

    however..it's pretty good at alot of other things...but NOT fluids and crowd systems!
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  10. #85
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    This is great I do hope they continue this paradigm also for character animation LW. for example the in house animation software developed by Dreamworks uses a tablet to animate in 3d. http://www.toonzone.net/2014/07/drea...dragon-sequel/
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  11. #86
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    Fair enough In some markets but i believe i was thinking oVf common animation tasks like deformer stacking, cloth that works Well with characters, Hair styling, hair shading and hair dynamics that are dependable. Very nice constraints, cage and lattice deformers robust animation layers and mixers.should have been more specific but i Did throw in the word "usually" Not "all the time".
    Perhaps to some artists fluids and state machines are considered fundamental practices I guess its unfair To label such things as essential or niche markets.
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  12. #87
    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    It's really pretty easy: you just ask yourself, do I really need this tool to do my job now? Will it help me work more efficiently and more cost effectively than I'm doing right now. If you answered 'yes' to these questions, then it's a no-brainer. (Well, except that this tool is not actually available yet, but you know what I mean.)

    If there's any question about whether you should or shouldn't get any third-party plugins, then you probably don't really need them. That's the beauty of third party tools--many are specialty tools and they are completely optional. While it's valid to think that that LW3D may eventually add similar features natively (if not bundle/integrate the third-party tool itself,) you can't count on that, especially if you have an immediate need for such tools.

    I, for one, am all set to click that 'buy' button when it appears. The previous 3rd Powers suite was incredibly useful to me in my freelance work this past year, especially the interactive Boolean tool, followed by the Lattice Deformer tool. I'm really looking forward to this Brush tool, especially the knife/slicing mode--I can think of a dozen recent situations where I could have used that one.

    G

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by cresshead View Post
    i think you both have valid points
    i've used max since 1999...it's NEVER shipped with a good renderer..even mental ray right now pretty much sucks for a lot of things..it's no where near modo...so i move most of my stuff out of max and render in modo for example.
    so yeh 3ds max in MY opinion doesn't have a decent renderer as you buy the base app.

    however..it's pretty good at alot of other things...but NOT fluids and crowd systems!
    Mentalray was pretty good up to max 2009. Its not as easy to use as lightwave renderer but it was capable and the quality was there. Vray is just too good now to consider mentalray.
    Max is like lightwave but with more flexibility with its modifier stack and the platform that almost every other software/game supported which is the most important aspect of multi app, multi project type studios.
    Even obscure iphone appz supported I/O from 3dmax. 3dmax was the central hub which lightwave is trying to do with goz, goae, etc. You can't say the same thing with other software back then. It doesnt do fancy fluids or complex ai crowd sims but that market is very small and most of the high end vfx studios went bankrupt and strugging in a cheaper environment.

  14. #89
    Curious
    IS the present 3rd powers tool available to the node editor for further manipulation?

  15. #90
    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    Do you mean the Lattice and Cage tools? They operate inside their own interface/timeline, which is the one aspect I don't like because the key frames are not accessible to graph editor, etc. The deformations do work with other displacement methods though. I don't think I've combined it with nodal deformations but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

    I've mainly used Lattice for deforming points and meshes for Instancer emitters, and I had some procedural displacement to randomize it. I don't think I was using nodal though.

    If you're wondering if the 3rd Powers tools themselves are available as nodal tools, no they're not. Would be cool though.

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