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Thread: Messiah Studio Pro to be Sold ( . . . to Autodesk )

  1. #136
    Super Member scratch33's Avatar
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    honestly this sounds like doing a buzz to take some money like last time they have made this kind of offer. Then? nothing...

    No thanks. Better to send 20 bucks to a charitable organization. Then, if something interresting happens, I am willing to pay the new price.

  2. #137
    Super Member jburford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    That's funny, the one thing I think pmg and LW 3DG group have in common, horrible public relations with the user base community. And even funnier is even more so in the last few months. Lw 3D Group has taken on even more and more of Flori's personality, which in a nutshell, is to stay secluded and develop, silently. No interaction whatever with the users. Then when they are finished, they announce what they a have already done. Other companies I have dealt with are constantly interacting with the user base - even if not revealing secrets. At least they are present - pretty much all the time.

    Now LW 3DG over the last few months goes even more silent, even more "reclusive".

    Sorry, but I feel this is a little over the Top and heavy handed here. Comparing Newtek to PMG/Fori is like comparing hmmmnn, not certain what to offer up. Newtek has always had a functioning Forum with at least 1-3 Admins/employees answering Messages, from time to time. Had time to time showcased their Product and Workflow with others. Been at least accepting problems to work on fixing and worked on fixing some of them.

    PMG/Fori avoids all until it needs money then asks/begs/offer $10-$20 Deals for "A limited time" to then disappear again for the next 2-3 years. Does not respond to users or feedback, does not showcase much anything and does not have much a a functioning Forum. Those running the Forum (not a part of PMG), disappear often for 1-2 years leaving most all in disarray. On the Messiah Forum only 2-3 Bigger Users actually keep it alive what they can.

    Messiah has probably lost 98% of all users the last 2-3 years, probably lucky if more than 20-50 users world-wide still going strong with it.

    There are only a couple of companies in the business that really offer an insight to what they are developing and to what actual direction they are taking. The main ones that come to my mind are 3D Coat and Blender...

    or what other ones do the same?

    Cheers

  3. #138
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by scratch33 View Post
    No thanks. Better to send 20 bucks to a charitable organization.
    If you want to send some money anywhere, I suggest you send it to Denis Pontonnier-- we get fantastic tools from him constantly. How much is DP Verdure worth?

    http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/main_en.htm
    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
    Praise to Buddha! #resist
    Chard's Credo-"Documentation is PART of the Interface"
    Film the cops. Always FILM THE COPS. Use this app.

  4. #139
    Super Member scratch33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeric_synergy View Post
    If you want to send some money anywhere, I suggest you send it to Denis Pontonnier-- we get fantastic tools from him constantly. How much is DP Verdure worth?

    http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/main_en.htm


    Totally agree on this.

    Does he continuing to develop for lw?

  5. #140
    Super Member jburford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon2.0 View Post

    From what I've gathered, Fori (don't know if I saw that on SetupTab or CGTalk or...) is working on another project in addition to Messiah so I wouldn't be surprised if he decided that NOW is the time to do something different and help Messiah mature using someone elses resources.

    LOL, "Mature"?

    In it's current state (more like dead, in the grave) it would need more the likes of Jesus Christ to awaken the Dead and bring it back to functioning Life again. Could almost more believe in the Easter Bunny bringing Gifts of Joy to all in the Middle East making Peace on Earth!


    But hey, I must be a Fool, cause I am curious where it is heading or at all what might be possible with it in the right hands.

    Only Time will Tell. (question is how much time, as the last 24 hours has come and went already) So, when will such announcement take place if at all?

    Cheers

  6. #141
    There was no promise on when the announcement would occur. Only as to when the offer was over.

    As to an announcement, I still say when LW 3D group is good and ready.

    Sorry but I can't take this too seriously.

  7. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by jburford View Post
    Sorry, but I feel this is a little over the Top and heavy handed here. Comparing Newtek to PMG/Fori is like comparing hmmmnn, not certain what to offer up. Newtek has always had a functioning Forum with at least 1-3 Admins/employees answering Messages, from time to time. Had time to time showcased their Product and Workflow with others. Been at least accepting problems to work on fixing and worked on fixing some of them.

    PMG/Fori avoids all until it needs money then asks/begs/offer $10-$20 Deals for "A limited time" to then disappear again for the next 2-3 years. Does not respond to users or feedback, does not showcase much anything and does not have much a a functioning Forum. Those running the Forum (not a part of PMG), disappear often for 1-2 years leaving most all in disarray. On the Messiah Forum only 2-3 Bigger Users actually keep it alive what they can.

    Messiah has probably lost 98% of all users the last 2-3 years, probably lucky if more than 20-50 users world-wide still going strong with it.

    There are only a couple of companies in the business that really offer an insight to what they are developing and to what actual direction they are taking. The main ones that come to my mind are 3D Coat and Blender...

    or what other ones do the same?

    Cheers
    Not even going to take the time to point out each one. But every one of your comparisons could easily go the other way. Lost 98 percent of its users... hmmmm.... that sounds familiar....

    Not going to lock horns with you on this, I understand your points, well made and understood.

    Just, wow, seems like the more this is discussed, the more this goes from something I was just kinda poking fun at to something that might well be real.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jburford View Post
    LOL, "Mature"?

    In it's current state (more like dead, in the grave)
    But this one, sorry. Will have to just flatly disagree. Messiah is a great piece of software.

  8. #143
    Stating that "Messiah is dead" is untrue. Messiah is a neglected kid on the street. Only a few understand him
    but those who do are amazed by his talents.

  9. #144
    This was a terrible week for them to decide to end the sale. People are going to expect an announcement when the sale is over yet they had the sale end on a weekend leading into an American holiday today.
    -Joshua Jorgensen

  10. #145
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    What was rather lame about that is, give a g.d. date and time. GMT time, preferably, and STATE that in the announcement. (That bit me once, but Kat was gracious enough to extend it past my confusion.)
    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
    Praise to Buddha! #resist
    Chard's Credo-"Documentation is PART of the Interface"
    Film the cops. Always FILM THE COPS. Use this app.

  11. #146
    Super Member jburford's Avatar
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    Messiah is an awesome piece of Software, meant dead in the eyes of the professional community and majority of it's user base. Not from its abilities, but run into the ground and destroyed down.

    Can imagine Fori showing anyone who is interested in working with it, the Massive list of Users from the Dare to Share Campaign, not telling that it was all given out for $10-20 or that all have left except perhaps a dozen of those from that period.

  12. #147
    Often Banned Megalodon2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jburford View Post
    Messiah is an awesome piece of Software, meant dead in the eyes of the professional community and majority of it's user base. Not from its abilities, but run into the ground and destroyed down.

    Can imagine Fori showing anyone who is interested in working with it, the Massive list of Users from the Dare to Share Campaign, not telling that it was all given out for $10-20 or that all have left except perhaps a dozen of those from that period.
    I don't think you give any potential buyer enough credit. I'm sure that ANY company would have done due diligence regarding the shape and userbase of the software - as well as know the circumstances as to WHY it is available to these potential buyers. Perhaps this is a company that actually understands what the software can and does do AND knows that it will complement their own application? Regardless, it's not like the history of PMG is hidden.

  13. #148
    Super Member jburford's Avatar
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    We'll have to wait and see what, if anything, comes of it all.

    I hear you, and common sense dictates that what you say Megaladon, but again, from what I have seen the last 30 years or so going down, really makes one shake their head.

  14. #149
    Well I was making just that point in fact jburford. When this idea first came up months ago on the forum here on yet another "why LightWave is dead or doomed or sucks or whatever" thread. Regarding "hey why not just acquire Messiah" with the idea this would boost the perception of LW as a character tool to new users and open up a new market - more or less as people would then see LW as a viable animation alternative.

    I was thinking, are you serious? What actual advantage? Messiah is already a plugin, the forums over there are "dead", most of us already have it.... flori is this or that...etc etc etc. I thought. Nah! Bad idea.

    So this was not my first thought - by a long shot - come this announcement. But I got to thinking about it objectively as people were talking and some interesting points were made that got me thinking more. Then I started in... ha ha ha.... well now I am almost convinced it can be no other.

    Here are the strongest points I see as to why this would be an advantage to LW:

    1) Yes they are spread thin. Obviously. Turing LightWave around is a huge project. And for this reason they have had to focus on projects with lesser expectations and faster release times as well as fixes using the existing tool set technology and workflow. That in a nutshell has been the development cycle after core. Even Bullet and Instancing was a process of taking development already done and porting it over. It was not from scratch and thus it happened fairly quickly. What followed was more immediate development cycles and releases so they could generate income.

    So now where do they get the time and resources to completely fix the character animation issues in LW. Genoma? Simply uses Skellegons in a creative way. Nothing really new there. Nevron. New. But simple alternative mocap solution reach a niche market.

    And this is where Messiah comes in from a development standpoint. Years of development already done. Works with the current workflow of LW without having to change everything. Yet the pay off us huge.

    2) Perception and Access

    So you ask, but wait, this already exists? Why does it make a difference? Well because when new people come to LW, over and over and over again it has to be mentioned... oh and don't forget, along with Blender and Modo (even Maya) as companions to LW, don't forget good old Messiah.... who? Its cheap its fast, it rocks actually... What? There is about 0 awareness of Messiah.

    Alternatively a new person comes to LW, they are hit with Messiah right off the bat with this as the companion of choice to LightWave. It already works as a plugin, it has years of development behind it. And you can purchase this as well along with LW. Package deals can be made.

    3) Helps corner the market. Now rather than LW 3D having a user base be forced to recommend other solutions for CA, now they own and can sell an option that is probably one of the best available as an option. This makes a big difference. Rather than buying into another workflow, the user buys into LW, buys into this workflow and can keep it all here if they want. This is brilliant marketing IMHO.

    4) Is a perfect marriage. There are both similarities and dissimilarities between PMG and NewTek. Some of the weaknesses in both sides can be enhanced by the other when you add them up.

    5) This buys more time. Unification is a huge project. They get the immediate benefit and can continue to unify LW. And when they do - whenever that is - they will already have their hands on Messiah which is an awesome CA tool. It is quite possible they have plans to later integrate these tools into LW. Highly speculative.

    I am now of the opinion that if NT did not buy Messiah they missed the boat.

    That is 180 degrees from my first reaction to the idea.

    OF course... ha ha ha , I could be completely wrong... but... well time will tell.
    Last edited by Surrealist.; 10-13-2014 at 10:43 PM.

  15. #150
    Often Banned Megalodon2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    I am now of the opinion that if NT did not buy Messiah they missed the boat.

    That is 180 degrees from my first reaction to the idea.

    OF course... ha ha ha , I could be completely wrong... but... well time will tell.
    Well... then I'll be right there along with you. I've been thinking the same thing for some time - pretty much since the start of this last PMG announcement.

    In fact NOW I'll be very disappointed if NT isn't the one to "acquire" Messiah. But then... I've been disappointed before.

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