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Thread: License transfer fees come to LW, ChronoSculpt

  1. #76
    Super Member spherical's Avatar
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    Exactly. I got into LW at v5.5 by purchasing a second market license. I've stayed current through the years and we added a second seat; upgrading that in parallel now. This resulted in thousands of dollars of direct revenue for NewTek; and we're not stopping there. Had I been slapped with a transfer fee back then, on top of the purchase price, I'd likely not have jumped. Allowing users who Don't Have As Much Cash To Throw Around As Some In This Thread, to buy into LightWave can certainly reap ongoing benefits for a long, long time.

    Yep, you can make a short term gain and shoot yourself in the foot long term. Your choice. I suppose that a $100 bird in the hand seems better than a $6,000+ bird in the bush but, is it... really?

    Then there's the "Everything Else Out There Is More Expensive, You're Getting Off Cheap" argument. Uhhh, most of us chose LightWave because it is affordable. Making it far less affordable, percentage-wise to the price of a second market license, isn't a good move. Again, make it easy to get in.

    Further, just because "Everybody's Doing It" is no reason to do so. It's the same argument that parents fend off all the time when their kids want [insert current popular thing here] because "everybody at school has one".

    BTW, I don't get the "liabilities" aspect mentioned above. How is a license any different, liability-wise, whether it is an original sale or second market? Seems that with second market, any liability of the producer of the software would be once removed by the existence of the person selling the license. Charging a transfer fee could have the reverse effect of placing the burden of liability back onto the entity charging the fee.
    Last edited by spherical; 07-26-2014 at 11:00 PM.
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  2. #77
    Honestly, is a $100 fee if you ever choose to sell or buy a secondhand copy of LightWave taking LightWave from the affordable category to the unaffordable category? Really.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    Honestly, is a $100 fee if you ever choose to sell or buy a secondhand copy of LightWave taking LightWave from the affordable category to the unaffordable category? Really.
    Depends who you ask.
    For a pro earning thousands per project, no. For a pro earning a lot less than that per project, yes.
    For hobbyist, yes, even if golf is a hobby its a totally different kind of hobby not comparable to 3d software. Maybe its the same as playing a videogame hobby. So 100usd for one game is a lot of money imo.
    100usd is also good to spend on some plugins instead, keeping the whole lightwave thirdparty healthy, lwcad, octane.

  4. #79
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    Why does a lightwave hobbyist need multiple lightwave licenses to sell at a later date?
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  5. #80
    Michael Nicholson zapper1998's Avatar
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    Who's Bright Idea was this anyways....

    Maybe $10.00 transfer fee... I could see..
    But $100.00 transfer fee.... considering the percentage of price for software/transfer price..



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  6. #81
    How Old? Really? Aww Heck colkai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonwestmas View Post
    Why does a lightwave hobbyist need multiple lightwave licenses to sell at a later date?
    Perchance it would not be about multiple licenses, but someone say with one license, who, I dunno, maybe lost their job, (mirror check), so was thinking of raising some much needed cash? If I sold my license and had to factor in losing $100 in the process, then I know I'm going to get a pittance for it. Yeah sure, any money is better than none, so next time a client under bids for your work, you can hold that ethos close and accept a stupidly low bid? (Nah, didn't think so.)
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  7. #82
    I should update my Avatar Verlon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    Honestly, is a $100 fee if you ever choose to sell or buy a secondhand copy of LightWave taking LightWave from the affordable category to the unaffordable category? Really.
    Ever hear of "the straw that broke the camel's back?"

    When I bought my original copy of LW5.5, $100 would have made the difference in me being able to afford it. I then went on to pre-order every upgrade until 11 (was disappointed and held out tip 11.5). I told other people about how great Lightwave was, and one of the things I always touted was how LW was like a product. When you sell your car, you don't have to pay a transfer fee to Ford. For people for whom $100 does make a difference today, Blender just got $100 more attractive. For people who can afford it, Modo/Cinema/Maya just got $100 more attractive.

    For the support/liabilities argument: one seat of Lightwave = 1 unit of support. What difference does it make to NT if it is me griping about support or the kid next door if only one of us is entitled to complain?

    I suspect the real issue is that the used market is perceived to diminish the value of the new software. Why pay $1495 when I can get a 'just as good' used license for $270. But, the $270 seems to be what the market will bear at the moment. Rather than seeing "we have to make our software more valuable," they have read "we have to make our software more expensive."

    Then we could go on and talk about underpaid 3D artists hitting hard times and having to sell licenses on the cheap, but that is really out of Newtek's control.

    I agree that $25 is more reasonable. I would think that the best solution would be making it easier to get started in and hooked on Lightwave. Maybe LW11.7/12 will be so good as to justify this. I certainly hope so.
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  8. #83
    Cow Orker cagey5's Avatar
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    But Modo has the same $100 transfer fee doesn't it? So why would it be more attractive because of this change. Also as I understand it the Modo license can only be sold on once. Perhaps that will be the next step for Lightwave too.
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  9. #84
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    Lets put this in Modo's perspective.
    It could be that used sales are SIGNIFICANT enough to affect the brandnew sale from Lux. So to deter people from buying used they put 100usd which is enough for some people not to buy used but instead consider the brandnew license instead.
    The notion that people who buy used and upgrade later on might not be a SIGNIFICANT number that Lux feels that its better if people just buy brandnew directly from them since its 100% sure profit. More money in the long run from the first sale up to the next upgrades that user will pay.
    It can't be cost of processing. How much effort does it really take to process a few details on the database. A couple of emails and a few minutes.
    I still think 100usd is too high.

  10. #85
    It should be around 25$. That whould be OK in my opinion, but 100$ are still much better than a 1000$ like eyeon is charging ..
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  11. #86
    Modo only allows you to transfer the current version of the software or the release immediately proceeding it so right now only 801 and 701 would be able to be transferred. Anything before that and the license would be useless to another person and can't be sold.

  12. #87
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    Modo only allows you to transfer the current version of the software or the release immediately proceeding it so right now only 801 and 701 would be able to be transferred. Anything before that and the license would be useless to another person and can't be sold.
    The average used price of a modo license is significantly higher than that of a used LW license, as well, so $100 is a smaller percentage of the total modo used license cost.
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  13. #88
    Super Member Shnoze Shmon's Avatar
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    Well according to the theory that those with extra cash to throw around say its no big deal and those who don't say it is, I should be upset about this. Need to find another reason to explain the polarization.

    Personally I can't believe it every time I see a current seat offered for less than $500. My own being purchased used with a few extras as 9.6 when it was still the current release. I was buying as a hobbyist breaking into the field for the first time. Paid $800 if I remember right. Would have bought new and paid full price because I was nervous about buying used, except the "extras" and a little off the top was enough incentive to risk it. That's one thing about LightWave. It's the only highly capable 3D software that is still priced in the range of a hobbyist at the listed price.

    I only have one seat. Can't imagine needing two, but yet I cringe every time I see one offered for nothing. Makes me want to get a loan if necessarily so I can scoop them up, but I have absolutely no use for a second seat. Especially since NewTek lets you install on multiple machines. WOW! CAN WE SAY CLIENT FRIENDLY!!!! I don't see how 2-3 hundred bucks would get me through a really tough time (like I'm currently in) and selling an asset for 1/5 or less, it's value when I could get more with a part time burger job (which is currently on the table) seems short sited. If I had a second seat of LW 11, which would be completely useless to me right now, I would not let it go for $300 even though I am currently desperate for income. That is too insignificant a sum to be effective and if someone has any real interest in acquiring a current LW seat they will not have a problem paying more.

    Those who are saying they may just leave LW over this I'm a little incredulous at. Those who list an Autodesk product as a choice for their migration over THIS issue seem totally insane to me. Somebody turned up the thermostat from 68deg to 72deg so now your mad and your going to jump into a 2000deg furnace out of spite? REALLY??? I totally don't get you!

    Those who say $100 is just a bit much of a fee. Well maybe your right, maybe your not. I can't see NewTek being anywhere near the company that would just pick an arbitrary number in a matter like this. They have too much of a history, even up to current times, of customer friendliness and considerate policy towards "the little guy". If it were Autodesk I would expect the reason for a $100 dollar fee to be because they can't conceive of a fee being smaller. And that small a fee would be for something like talking to the receptionist.

    Those who think the last line in the email was a bit unbelievable considering especially the way and circumstances it was announced, well that's a reasonable point. But on the other hand, what the heck would you put on such an email?

  14. #89
    Parttime Member mikala's Avatar
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    Well they could have written "Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out"

  15. #90
    Wow! Is there some great event on the horizon where everyone is suddenly going to be wanting to sell their copy? I think this was more of a setting down what rule would be going forward. Now the free market can kick in and do it's bit. The seller will still try to get as much as possible and the buyer will try to get for as cheap as possible.

    As to the "if I was selling my car" bit, well here in Calif - yes, there is a transfer fee. Hell, the was it's going here there may soon be a "Drinking Water" fee. Maybe not paid back to Ford, but it is still there. And it is tied into what the price of the sold car is.

    Looking at the $100.00 fee, I don't know if there was serious thinking put to it or if it was a number pulled out of a hat. But from a business view, there is time involved in doing this. It probably falls under nuisance. But somebody at LW needs to handle this and the tick tock certainly stacks up quickly. And it's not as if Lightwave is such a huge company that they have some huge licensing dept. Someone - who was probably doing some other task - now has to take care of this transfer action. Does it cost Lightwave $100.00 in time and function? Possibly not, but you might be surprised in what it would actually cost. The last company I worked for would try to balance out costs for returns. For them this fell under a customer service banner. If the customer bought "A" and thought what they got was not exactly "A" (in this case fabrics) sometimes a replacement would be shipped out and the customer got to keep the original because the return would be too expensive. It was the combination of the return shipping and the time and effort of doing the paperwork once it got back. It simply cost too much to return certain things.
    Okay, so LW isn't going to give away stuff like my last company did. But they do need to account for the time taken. In this case it may only be Lightwave's way of saying - Please think twice before doing.

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