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Thread: How TV can use feed uploaded by KA-band?

  1. #1
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    How TV can use feed uploaded by KA-band?

    even experienced Tricaster user I'm still newbie with KA-sat system delivering singal by IP (i.e. in Europe that system provider is Tooway). Maybe you guys can point me to the source where is explained how TV station can get/download AV feed sent/streamed by this KA-band system? What are ALL the solutions destination TVs have, means which options receiving feed TVs have once I (as broadcaster on the site) use that somehow still new technology? What are solutions that would work on TV broadcast level? Should we have to use hardware encoder -decoder pair on each end or some software coding system will work fine also?

    I would appreciate any help you can give me - a link, site, pdf, doc, explanation of basic processes... Thank you in advance for any help and prompt answer.

  2. #2
    Registered User johncoles's Avatar
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    If you were sending a feed over KA-Band as IP then a TV station could receive it over any usual IP method.

    The options you have would be any method of IP streaming. To do it straight from TriCaster you could send RTMP to something like a Wowza Server. We have done this at Digital Tree Media for a few clients. Another option would be an external encoder/decoder solution with something like the Teradek Cube systems.

    Let me know if you need anymore info!

  3. #3
    Registered User 3xScreen's Avatar
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    There are a bunch of solutions for the delivery of broadcast-quality live over IP broadband satellite services such as Tooway/Newspotter. In the UK, basically all the broadcasters are moving their satellite trucks to Ka/IP from Ku traditional broadcast satellite contribution feeds.

    What the broadcast industry is using is:
    - the Newspotter service, or similar offerings, to book dedicated bandwidth for the satellite connection
    - IP encoders with forward error correction to send a low latency, high quality video contribution feed

    The IP encoders/decoders we use are Fujitsu IP-900s http://www.fujitsu.com/global/produc...oducts/ip900e/ There are a bunch of equivalent offerings that are being used too. You input SDI to your encoder and the broadcaster takes out SDI from their decoder. If both encoder and decoder are from the same manufacturer you can benefit from proprietary FEC implementations that improve feed performance.

    There are companies that do the switching and delivery for you too so all you need to do is send your feed to them and they then get it to wherever it needs to go - in which case, all you need is the encoder.

    You can contribute feeds over RTMP direct from your Tricaster as John has suggested as well. That has the advantage of being cheap (all you need is a Wowza AWS instance) - but you also don't benefit from forward error correction so depending on the path you should expect less than perfect video quality. Many people wrap RTMP in Zixi to fix some of the jitter and other issues inherent in IP video contribution. Teradek Cubes are also a cheaper contribution device - compared to the Fujitsus. If the broadcaster/s you are feeding is already a LiveU user and have a LiveU headend server, LULite is a compelling contribution solution.

    Hope the above helps.

    regards, Scott
    3xScreen Media - the online video experts
    www.3xscreen.co.uk

    We use 860, 850 & 450 Tricasters, 3Play 425, Livetext laptops, LT Scoreboards, UltimateTV Midi Doll, Young Monkey's Mastercontrol.

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    Thanks guys for useful info. Of course there are new questions coming together with new knowledge...

    a) what is price range of Fujitsu Scott u r using? And Teradek, John?
    b) from your experience, which pairs are often used on TV in Europe? Teradek, Makita, any other? Basically my question is - which coder to buy in order to have most chances to make it "compatible" with decoder on TV side far away fro the venue and keep error correction feature as well as other important features?
    c) Scott you mentioned companies doing switching... how about FEC and other 'useful options' in that case?
    d) is there a possibility to convert KA-band signal somewhere, somehow and make it available on 'classic' KU-band so TV can download it as they regularly get used to?
    e) what about VPN - is that network setup necessary for good quality video delivery?

    thank you very much for knowledge shared!

  5. #5
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    We just unveiled our new KA truck. See story here:
    http://www.al.com/news/huntsville/in...ls_etv_de.html
    We are using Streambox as our encoder/decoder. We've had great success so far, and some of our productions include over 11 hours of graduation ceremonies live, as well as several Space Camp events. The ViaSat service is capable of 20Mbps down and 10Mbps up, which is more than enough for HD (we usually run football in HD at 8Mbps) and the Streambox encoder is very efficient. Lantency is less than one second end to end in SD and right at two seconds for HD.

    The AVL terminal is field upgradable to KU if needed. At the moment we are point to point (encoder to decoder) but Streambox has a service that sends the enocoded data to multiple decoders using their server. This allows for a similar "one to many" distribution like conventional KU. I definitely think this is how all trucks will eventually be. Unlike a typical KU truck, the KA connection allows for two way communication (internet, voip, etc) which gives much more capability/flexibility. The terminal is also auto-acquire, so a press of a button deploys the dish and roughly six minutes later you're online.

    Jon
    Jonathan Crowe
    ETV Engineer
    www.etvhuntsville.com

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    Thanks Jon, now we have Streambox on the list also... what is best price you can buy that encoder for? And decoder?

    About Streambox's servers ability to make "one to many" distribution - how they do that, what is your knowledge and experience related to this matter?

    And about "field-upgradeable KA-band to KU-band", can you tell us more? How practically it can be done?
    Because it would be great to have KA-band LNB/system and in case destination TV asks for 'classic' KU-band to switch "smoothly" to that system.


    *** also, would thanks for contributing based on questions posted below: ***

    Quote Originally Posted by stijef View Post

    a) what is price range of Fujitsu Scott u r using? And Teradek, John?
    Teradek Chimera 5.5k $US?

    Quote Originally Posted by stijef View Post

    b) from your experience, which pairs are often used on TV in Europe? Teradek, Makita, any other? Basically my question is - which coder to buy in order to have most chances to make it "compatible" with decoder on TV side far away fro the venue and keep error correction feature as well as other important features?

    c) Scott you mentioned companies doing switching... how about FEC and other 'useful options' in that case?

    d) is there a possibility to convert KA-band signal somewhere, somehow and make it available on 'classic' KU-band so TV can download it as they regularly get used to?

    e) what about VPN or some of network setup like that; is that necessary for good quality video delivery? Or even public Internet infrastructure would be enough.

  7. #7
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    Streambox has two different types of encoders/decoders. The hardware versions (a physical 1RU server type PC) are more expensive, depending on the model probably starting around $10k. The software versions (which can run both on windows and OSX) are much more reasonable, the software is around $3k, and then depending on your setup, you use the appropriate BlackMagic hardware to get I/O. Streambox has a subscription to a service called Streambox Live. This allows you to stream the source content to one of their servers, and then it can be distributed out to how ever many decoders you have at your destinations.

    As far as the AVL terminal goes, the one we have came pre-wired for all the connections needed for KU. AVL lists that it can be field upgradable, so I don't think it would be too difficult (although I haven't tried it). Of course you would need the KU buc and amplifier and a spectrum analyzer..., equipment that's currently not included in the KA setup.

    In both cases, I'm sure Streambox and AVL could provide more specific information/pricing/requirements/etc.

    Jon
    Jonathan Crowe
    ETV Engineer
    www.etvhuntsville.com

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    Jon, are you running your Streambox set-up with the ACT-L3 codec, or the newer ACT-L4 codec? My experience with HD and using the ACT-L3 codec / 9400 decoder, was about 3 to 4 seconds of delay. The encoders were for the most part seeking/running on LTE services.

    Just curious,

    thx.

    b.

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    Brian except this question, why u don't post your experiences with KA band broadcasting?
    Last edited by stijef; 08-13-2014 at 05:05 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by stijef View Post
    Brian except this question, why u don't post your experiences with KA band broadcasting?
    Sorry, no KA band experience here, just KU (and C band but that was a long time ago)... In scenarios using the StreamBox, I was working with them in a point/encode to point/decode manner.

    b.

  11. #11
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    Brian,

    We're still using ACT-L3, I'm not sure if L4 has been released to the public yet. We also have our VBR buffer set to 1/2 second. This is typically the reason for delay/latency with the Streambox, and high VBR settings aren't required unless the connection is poor. FEC is usually set to 7%.

    One more thing to consider is that the satellite connection we're using has an inherent 650 millisecond delay end to end (that includes from ground terminal, to the satellite, from the satellite to the NOC, and then out to the web). So an SD Streambox shot is really only adding about 1/2 second and an HD shot only 1.5 seconds, giving the total end to end delay of about 1 second for SD and 2 seconds for HD.

    Jon

    - - - Updated - - -
    Last edited by JonCrowe; 08-14-2014 at 09:23 PM. Reason: Double post
    Jonathan Crowe
    ETV Engineer
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