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Thread: First ever room interior attempt

  1. #1
    Cave Dweller Slick Systems's Avatar
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    First ever room interior attempt

    Hi all,

    just thought I'd post this effort I'm working on of my first true attempt to get a good lit interior shot.

    This kind of thing has always seemed beyond my reach and I have always admired other members work so I thought I'd give it a go - of course it always helps when you're thrust into it by a client wanting something more than they have had before… ;-)

    I have struggled to understand this whole GI/energy conserve v lights v luminous ploys thing for quite some time and whilst I seem to be able to pull things out of the bag I've never been 100% confident with it all. I'm still having problems understanding why when I add a simple area light inside the room it seems to blat the whole shot with light until I turn the intensity right down and then you end up with blobby highlights everywhere that light is reflected.

    I'm sure I'll work it out eventually… I know it's probably the increased GI at 300% which has a global effect on the light emitted from the area light or something…

    I'd like the walls to be whiter and not reflect so much of the floor's yellowish/greenish hue and the same with the wall cupboards too.

    Also it needs more props in there especially outside and an environment too. The exterior floor is just a simple image texture with no further effort spent to make it look right. i was mainly trying to get the basic interior right first then I'd move outside.

    The glazing uses dielectric which I really hated at first until I realised that it can only be used in a GI scene and also when it can only reflect items within the scene, if it so much as glimpses the backdrop you get black windows or strange alpha results in those areas. Now I think it's great and gives such a good clean effect…

    Anyway comments appreciated.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Kind regards
    V.B.

    It's a small cave but you know, ...it's not too damp.

    Sys: 3.0Ghz 8Core, 512GB SSD, Dual FireProD700, 32GB RAM, Yosemite, 8TB NAS

  2. #2
    Cave Dweller Slick Systems's Avatar
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    Oh and does anyone know how to get those light beams that you sometimes see with dust particles in them? I'd quite like to be able to add them into this shot if it's not too difficult.

    Also is it worth using a bit of bloom or corona to get a softer finish? if so what settings do people recommend? or is it better to do this in post? I may have to animate this scene so would prefer as little as possible post retouching.

    And forgot to mention that this is an exposed render using the image controls on save to tweak the white and black points to get a brighter result.

    Are there any tips to add texture to the scene - I'm thinking more about subtle mottling of the walls and furniture plus very weak bump maps to provide a small amount of roughness to the surfaces esp the cupboards and walls/ceiling.
    Last edited by Slick Systems; 07-02-2014 at 03:31 AM.
    Kind regards
    V.B.

    It's a small cave but you know, ...it's not too damp.

    Sys: 3.0Ghz 8Core, 512GB SSD, Dual FireProD700, 32GB RAM, Yosemite, 8TB NAS

  3. #3
    Registered User ArtGoblin's Avatar
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    Looking good for a start I think perhaps the texture on the floor is a bit too small, it feels like it should be scaled up a bit or it's going to give the impression that there is a giant living there. I'd do glow and corona/bloom effects in post, but that's just how I like to work. I also feel like the brick texture on the outside has too dark crevasses in comparison to how the rest of the scene is lit. You could adjust the texture map itself, or try to use it more as a bump or a displacement.

    I like the dirt map on the balcony.

    The render itself is a bit grainy some places to I'd look into your AA and shading samples settings.

  4. #4
    Cave Dweller Slick Systems's Avatar
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    @ Art Goblin: thanks for the response, as i said in my post the area with the least work was the exterior and surprisingly the wall texture worked really well given that it's literally just a 2d image map with cubic mapping and no other settings altered!! didn't even adjust diffuse at all. All the surfaces are using nodes mainly the material nodes and the standard material node with a few maps plugged in for the interior surfaces. Again the same with the brick texture it is just a 2d image map blatted on there with no alteration of the settings - it seriously needs tweaking but was more concerned about the interior to start with.

    As for the floor map it is actually meant to be that small it's thin strips of wood not the typical larger wood planking usually found in houses. Not sure if it's overdone though but I kinda liked it all the same. My aunt in canada has very similar flooring throughout her home which is where the inspiration comes from.
    Kind regards
    V.B.

    It's a small cave but you know, ...it's not too damp.

    Sys: 3.0Ghz 8Core, 512GB SSD, Dual FireProD700, 32GB RAM, Yosemite, 8TB NAS

  5. #5
    Registered User ArtGoblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Systems View Post
    As for the floor map it is actually meant to be that small it's thin strips of wood not the typical larger wood planking usually found in houses. Not sure if it's overdone though but I kinda liked it all the same. My aunt in canada has very similar flooring throughout her home which is where the inspiration comes from.
    Yeah I can see that, this might be just a matter of personal opinion, but it feels to me like it's scaled a bit to small. But don't take my word for it

  6. #6
    Cave Dweller Slick Systems's Avatar
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    @ ArtGoblin: Agreed i think it's just a personal taste thing but I appreciate your opinion all the same.

    I'll look at the AA settings it's probably the RPE as the AA is set reasonably high at 9min and 24max with AS set at .03 perhaps a .01 might give better results but I think it may be easier to up the RPE (@800) and SBR (@80) to provide more samples. Render time is fairly quick so far but it is just a small file size and the final will be required for print so I may end up sacrificing the graininess for a quicker render especially on my ancient old Mac Pro.
    Kind regards
    V.B.

    It's a small cave but you know, ...it's not too damp.

    Sys: 3.0Ghz 8Core, 512GB SSD, Dual FireProD700, 32GB RAM, Yosemite, 8TB NAS

  7. #7
    Registered User ArtGoblin's Avatar
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    well... it's maybe more that I've never seen such a small scale on these kind of tiled floors. Here are some images that are more like what I'm used to seeing. But I haven't seen them all

    googleImageRef 1

    googleImageRef 2

    googleImageRef 3

    I recommend doing limited region render tests with higher resolution and sampling/AA settings to try and get rid of the graininess from the problem areas. Because in the end this render is probably going to have to cook for a couple of hours if you are rendering for print quality.

    Also if you hadn't allready checked these out I think they'll come in handy when tweaking your render settings:

    http://www.except.nl/en/#.en.article...aliasing-guide

    http://www.except.nl/en/#.en.article...adiosity-guide

  8. #8
    Are you using the rgb preset for your color space, it looks like you are, that is important to use most of the time when doing photo-real images, you avoid those hot spots that you mentioned that I don't actually see in your render anyway. Energy conserving just means that the surface bounces back less light than it receives, it should never be more unless it is self illuminating. Your render looks very good to me so you are doing something right.

  9. #9
    Cave Dweller Slick Systems's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtGoblin View Post

    I recommend doing limited region render tests with higher resolution and sampling/AA settings to try and get rid of the graininess from the problem areas. Because in the end this render is probably going to have to cook for a couple of hours if you are rendering for print quality.
    Yes I totally agree - I plan to leave it overnight when I get it finalised hopefully this will be long enough when I have all the other problems fixed.

    I understand completely about the floor and had been thinking along similar lines perhaps a small increase in texture size is needed - I admit that I was just doing it from memory and without reference. the second of your references does have a similar floor strip size to mine perhaps slightly larger but the other two are the typical larger plank style most commonly seen. I think that perhaps the lack of other visual scale reference within the render does add to that 'giant feel' - once I get a few props in there and some outside furniture too it should make things more obvious as to the scales.

    Excepts guides have been a continual reference for me over the years and usually end up being referred to at some stage during my thought process - I really wish they would update them for use with newer versions of Lightwave to take advantage of all the new bells and whistles in AA and rendering since they were done.

    I'd also really like to see someone else's scene setup for a photo real interior render using GI and maps with nodal surfaces etc etc… it would help me enormously if I could just deconstruct a scene which was done well, especially on the surfacing/lighting side of things. i know it's never just a one solution fits all, but to have the knowledge that I am doing things the 'right' way would be a boon.
    Kind regards
    V.B.

    It's a small cave but you know, ...it's not too damp.

    Sys: 3.0Ghz 8Core, 512GB SSD, Dual FireProD700, 32GB RAM, Yosemite, 8TB NAS

  10. #10
    Cave Dweller Slick Systems's Avatar
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    Thanks Djwaterman as far as I'm aware all the colour space settings are set to linear. As I was having problems with the internal lights I removed them completely and I think there is no internal light except bounced light from the GI now. Which is why there are no nasty hotspot effects. I was thinking about adding some interior lights but just using luminous ploys rather than an actual light - hopefully that will get around the hotspot issue as it's all part of a rad calc isn't it? I was under the impression from my limited understanding that as long as the GI does the whole lighting then it should work as expected.
    Last edited by Slick Systems; 07-02-2014 at 05:41 AM.
    Kind regards
    V.B.

    It's a small cave but you know, ...it's not too damp.

    Sys: 3.0Ghz 8Core, 512GB SSD, Dual FireProD700, 32GB RAM, Yosemite, 8TB NAS

  11. #11
    Cave Dweller Slick Systems's Avatar
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    Oh and if anyone is interested heres a link to the texture on the wall outside:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/51fszslqaf...hite0048_L.jpg

    I'll leave it there for a few days so get it while it's hot as they say.
    Kind regards
    V.B.

    It's a small cave but you know, ...it's not too damp.

    Sys: 3.0Ghz 8Core, 512GB SSD, Dual FireProD700, 32GB RAM, Yosemite, 8TB NAS

  12. #12
    Just for the hell of it save the scene under a new name and set the color space to the sRGB preset, turn down the GI to 100% and see what happens, it could wreck the look you have but you will probably also discover something, it used to be a little mysterious the linear color space thing but now that LW has those presets it's easy to get it with the sRGB preset (still confusing I guess because it's rightfully called RGB yet achieves a linear result). Basically what you get is a raw rendering that will appear more washed out
    than we might have been used to, but this means you have all this information in the shadow areas and the colors and contrast can be adjusted in an image processor like Photoshop, I often just use the exposure filter under adjustments, play with the gamma a bit to pull back some darkness, play with vibrance and color adjustment filters and curves to bring the image back to something that displays good in RGB color space on the monitor. Matt explained it pretty well on his site http://www.pixsim.co.uk/ and that was before the preset was introduced, so now you don't even have to understand it.

  13. #13
    Cave Dweller Slick Systems's Avatar
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    djwaterman: I see, strangely enough I did flick the render into the sRGB colour preset in the image viewer in LW and it did look more washed out and revealed much more detail in the shadow areas too, so I see what you mean. However recently within the LW community there seemed to be a shift toward the linear colour space which is why I left it well alone when NT introduced it as the default setting. From the little I understand about colour spaces it should still be possible to amend the colour space on the render even after rendering?? as it's really just a colour lookup table surely it can be altered within photoshop or the like?
    Kind regards
    V.B.

    It's a small cave but you know, ...it's not too damp.

    Sys: 3.0Ghz 8Core, 512GB SSD, Dual FireProD700, 32GB RAM, Yosemite, 8TB NAS

  14. #14
    Registered User ArtGoblin's Avatar
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    sounds like double gamma to me. Usually you want to have everything set to linear, and then you'll manually in the image editor, set the color textures to an sRGB colorspace. That should look better when you gamma correct the rendered image

  15. #15
    Registered User ArtGoblin's Avatar
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    Think about it like this. Your render is a meal that you are cooking. And all your images are ingredients that go in. All the information given to the render engine should in most scenarios be linear information. Linear just means that a grayscale value of 50% is read as 50%. But the gamma correction curve will distort this information. The reason for it is so it will display correctly on our screens. So most likely you've made or are working with a color texture that has allready been gamma-corrected, so if you don't tell Lightwave's render engine that, it will apply a gamma correction upon a gamma corrected texture, and therefor it gives a washed out effect. That's why you set the colorspace for all your colorImages t sRGB, becouse then the renderer knows that it has allready been gammaCorrected and it will de-Gamma the image (revert the effect) before it starts cooking. Hope this makes sense... I'm not really sure, it's a tricky subject to wrap your head around, but once you get it it will give you better render results every time.

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