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Thread: RenderMan catching up with FPrime... 10yrs later.

  1. #1

    RenderMan catching up with FPrime... 10yrs later.

    http://www.fxguide.com/featured/rend...next-25-years/

    Watch the video near the end of the article, with the Jaguar.

    Worley did the same demonstration TEN YEARS ago ( does anyone know where we could find that video? ). Notice the stuttering interaction here too, and remember how much more powerful this machine is than whatever Worley used back then. I think that was before he had it multi-threaded tooo, so, *one core*, a max of about 3ghz.

    The render demo at the top ( spheres and mirrors ) is rendered with no blurry reflections, no blurry refraction, and not even motion blur. They don't give rendertimes but this would have to be in realtime to be at all impressive.

    I just don't get it. It takes them 10yrs to add full raytracing, and they only come up to par with other raytracers... and they're winning awards for technology??

    I tested Renderman against Mental Ray back in 2010 ( at a maya shop ), a plain grey charcter model and 12 raytrace shadow point lights;
    Mental Ray : 4 seconds
    Renderman : 17 minutes

    Yes, 17 Minutes, vs. 4 seconds. That's why you had to use shadow maps for everything in renderman, and a bare minimum of lights, until recently.

    Methinks the Emperor's New Clothes still applies today -
    Last edited by toby; 05-29-2014 at 06:43 PM.
    Confirmed -
    No Weapons of Mass Destruction
    or links to Al Queda or 9/11. (Sep. 2003)

  2. #2
    Here we go :
    http://worley.com/E/Products/fprime/videos.html

    Not his oldest videos, but they are pretty old, 2007. And v3.0 of FPrime. And the interactive renders are better quality than Renderman's, today, on a faster machine.

    Obviously Renderman RIS has more to it, more open, flexible and built to work with programmers, and huge pipelines, 64 bit, etc.

    But FPrime was made by *one guy*. And he had to hack Lightwave, with it's closed SDK, to do it.

    What the heck has Pixar been doing all this time?
    Confirmed -
    No Weapons of Mass Destruction
    or links to Al Queda or 9/11. (Sep. 2003)

  3. #3
    Registered User
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    And Renderman will be free by Siggraph for non-commercial - http://renderman.pixar.com/view/future-of-renderman

    New price of $495 for commercial version.
    "Once one can articulate an important idea into a concise statement, then one can use the statement and not have to have the fear of changing behavior." - Ed Catmull on Pixar creativity

  4. #4
    So what, we got VPR and LW.

  5. #5
    And Octane. The likes of which is putting all renderers on notice to improve. Thank goodness for us.

  6. #6
    free Renderman is like Free Beer on the Moon
    stee+cat
    real name: steve gilbert
    http://www.cresshead.com/

    Q - How many polys?
    A - All of them!

  7. #7
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    This thread is hilarious!
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2018.0.7 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),32GB RAM, NV 980ti

  8. #8
    I remember when we hardly dared to utter words like renderman, now you get i for lousy 499 US bucks. Hm. Strange times for sure.
    Soon it's gonna be 99 cents but by that time we all crawl on for on radioactive fields digging for roots and edible bugs.

  9. #9
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    From Ed Catmull. . ."Each group has different needs and different desires. Some times those needs and desires conflict with each other; Sometimes they disagree about the approaches we should take; But for us this is healthy. . . . This way we get the advantage of great breadth; A lot of smart people working on problems from all different angles."

    This statement applies to all software really. Obviously Renderman has something to offer, I would say something special to offer in the way of rendering character performances. No real need to be comparing Fprime to renderman hehe, nothing really to compare. Free for non-comercial film makers, wow, can't beat that.
    All that is powerful or long standing is first conceived in the imagination; supported by the hope of possibility and then made manifest in our commitment of our current physical reality.

  10. #10
    Mike, in Monsters Inc Tartiflette's Avatar
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    I think we are comparing apples to oranges here, and i say that even though i'd sure would like to see FPrime updated to work with current LightWave as it still have some unique features and i dream about the performance we would have now with an updated FPrime and the actual hardware to run it.

    But comparing FPrime to RenderMan, seriously ?
    Sure they are render engines, but i think that's about the only thing they have in common...


    Cheers,
    Laurent aka Tartiflette.

  11. #11
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tartiflette View Post
    I think we are comparing apples to oranges here, and i say that even though i'd sure would like to see FPrime updated to work with current LightWave as it still have some unique features and i dream about the performance we would have now with an updated FPrime and the actual hardware to run it.

    But comparing FPrime to RenderMan, seriously ?
    Sure they are render engines, but i think that's about the only thing they have in common...


    Cheers,
    Laurent aka Tartiflette.
    Too true.
    All that is powerful or long standing is first conceived in the imagination; supported by the hope of possibility and then made manifest in our commitment of our current physical reality.

  12. #12
    You've got three of the top studios, Pixar, Disney, ILM and two teams of people at Universities, Zurich and CMU. Probably that, along with open sudiv and partership with Audodesk on that technology, is I'd say the largest funding and resources available to develop rendering software (and other interrelated tech) specially for character animation and other special effects. And they are releasing this as free to non-commercial users as well as drastically dropping the price for commercial users.

    This says a lot about what is happening to this industry. Add Open Subdiv and you have pretty much the best minds in the business developing software with the intent to open it up to the largest amount of users.

    Cool times ahead.

    And I love what he said about not worrying about competition in the early days and how that relates to some of the things they decide should be open source.

    Looking at where these guys are now today says a lot about their open approach in development and business models. Completely aside from being geniuses and having been there in the pioneering days - right place right time factor which can not be discounted. But still, I think these guys have had the right approach and that is what has gotten them so far.
    Last edited by Surrealist.; 05-31-2014 at 11:52 AM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    You've got three of the top studios, Pixar, Disney, ILM .
    ALL owned by disney...
    stee+cat
    real name: steve gilbert
    http://www.cresshead.com/

    Q - How many polys?
    A - All of them!

  14. #14
    Senior Constrictor Netvudu's Avatar
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    Frankly, I would be much more moved by this Renderman decision if it werenīt because they waited until they have been clearly surpassed both technologically and de facto on many of the top studios around the world.
    The truth is Renderman denied PBR for way too long, and now that itīs proven it works and itīs a new need they released a very bad version which is slowly making them to keep on losing customers. Just check last yearsī Academy nominations to realize how Arnold is clearly winning the big leagues game right now.
    Under that scenario, having them release a free Renderman version looks more like a desperate attempt of maintaining their status more than a hippie- "life is beautiful" decision.
    Itīs indeed good for users, but I donīt read it as selfless generosity exactly, if you know what I mean.
    3d animation? Hah! Did you take a look through your window?thereīs plenty of it...and pre-rendered!!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Tartiflette View Post
    But comparing FPrime to RenderMan, seriously ?
    Sure they are render engines, but i think that's about the only thing they have in common...
    Like I said :
    "Obviously Renderman RIS has more to it, more open, flexible and built to work with programmers, and huge pipelines, 64 bit, etc."

    Nobody is dumb enough to say that 'FPrime is as good as Renderman'. Nobody is saying you could have done 'Avatar' in FPrime.

    But what Worley released in 2004 has very comparable features to what Pixar just released. And it's even better in a couple ways.

    With 10yrs of programming by teams of people, and with machines that are many, many times more powerful, that should just not be the case. That's what I'm trying to find out.

    I think you're still under the Emperor's New Clothes effect. "It's Renderman!! Obviously nothing compares to it." They aren't even doing anything that hasn't been done before - and done better than the examples in this article. You gotta give me something if you're going to say "they don't compare", like, a reason.

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