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Thread: Yet another archviz render...

  1. #16
    Mike, in Monsters Inc Tartiflette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexos View Post
    Whoa, 20 hours sound like a lot. What kernel were you using? Also, did you check "fake shadows" on the specular? And finally, Octane lights can increase render times (and noise) quite dramatically - how many are there?

    ADP.
    Path tracing, as direct lighting is such a bad "look alike" of a real GI solution.
    So it increases the time quite a bit, i konw, especially since there are almost only reflective surfaces in this scene (and blurry reflections, to add to the render times !)
    As for the lights there is one for each window, all are set to "portal" lights.
    But i know this can be accelerated by knowing more this render engine. I'm only at the beginning with Octane, and as it's a very different from LightWave i have to learn to take different ways to get the results i want.
    It will some time to get used to it, though, but i'm quite confident i'll get to understand what's the best way to get it working properly.


    Cheers,
    Laurent aka Tartiflette.

  2. #17
    normally i am different ingo's Avatar
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    See, the blurry reflection of the octane rendering looks a lot better, thats what i was talking about. Not sure what you made different and how to redo it in LW. Btw, how long did it render in LW ?
    ingo erik moltzen - virtual image maker --- www.im-graphics.com

  3. #18
    TD/Animator lino.grandi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tartiflette View Post
    Path tracing, as direct lighting is such a bad "look alike" of a real GI solution.
    I think you can use Direct Lighting with GI mode set to Diffuse, raising up the depth for Diffuse, Specular and Glossiness (6 normally works for me), and get a very photoreal result in a fraction of the time.
    Lino Grandi

    3D Artist at OTOY

  4. #19
    Eh, what?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tartiflette View Post
    Path tracing, as direct lighting is such a bad "look alike" of a real GI solution...
    As for the lights there is one for each window, all are set to "portal" lights.
    As Lino says, you can use DL and fiddle with depths until you reach a good compromise - in this case you'll be using a biased solution, but the results are often indistinguishable from PT or PMC. As for lights, Octane works in a rather different way so you won't necessarily need all those "window lights" we've become accustomed to. Be nice if you could post that simplified scene you were talking about earlier, I'd like to give this a go

    ADP.

  5. #20
    Mike, in Monsters Inc Tartiflette's Avatar
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    Well, to be honest, Direct Lighting (even with mode set to "diffuse") is such an ersatz of GI that i don't really want to play with it.

    I know it's faster but it's just an enhanced AO and every render i've seen done in this mode is screaming "fake GI !".
    And i for sure didn't buy Octane to have a poor quality GI solution, even if it's fast as hell. I much prefer a good/great solution, at the expense of render time, but i wouldn't mind a fast & great GI solution as well.

    As for the scene, i'll post asap a "pure" LightWave version as well as Kray and Octane versions, so if anyone want to play with it, he/she will be more than welcome to show its result here.


    Cheers,
    Laurent aka Tartiflette.

  6. #21
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    Love it. My first impression was that it was a photograph and I think most people would be fooled if they had no reason to look closer.

  7. #22
    Mike, in Monsters Inc Tartiflette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pauland View Post
    Love it. My first impression was that it was a photograph and I think most people would be fooled if they had no reason to look closer.
    Thanks for the kind words, always appreciated !

    I have been working on a Kray version of the scene and i might reconsider my first judgment as it seems i probably found one or two settings which could end up with a cool render of this scene !
    Now, if a "real" Kray Master want to have a look and show me the great power of this render engine i'll be more than happy to learn a few things !... when i will have released the scene, that is.


    Cheers,
    Laurent aka Tartiflette.

  8. #23
    looks super, very realistic,
    how long does a regular lw output take to render? are you on an i7 quad? and what was your aa settings? do you put any of the samples up for lights?
    thanks

  9. #24
    Mike, in Monsters Inc Tartiflette's Avatar
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    Well, the render @ 1500x1000 with LightWave's internal render engine was around 20 hours as well (on an i5/4670k @ 4Ghz), the blurry reflections are what literally "kill" the render times, as almost all the surfaces are more or less reflective.

    That plus the fact the lighting conditions are really difficult to deal with (and also that i wanted a clean render, no matter what the render times !) and you end up with rendering times that go through the roof !

    Anyway, i've worked a bit on a Kray solution and ended up with a really good result in... 1h40' !! o_O
    That's the way for Kray to tell me i was a bit fast to dismiss it as a good solution for this scene !

    I'll do a cleanup (today or tomorrow) of the things that can't be shared (textures or objects) and i think i'll be able to post a scene for each render engine (LightWave, Kray, Octane) quite soon if anyone want to "play" with it, so stay tuned !


    Cheers,
    Laurent aka Tartiflette.

  10. #25
    Mike, in Monsters Inc Tartiflette's Avatar
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    Ok, so here is the modified scene to avoid any object or material i can't share.

    It's coming with 3 different scenes, one for LW internal render engine, one for Kray and the last one for Octane !
    Anyone who want to have a go with it and play a bit with the settings is welcome to test and come back with his findings, perhaps there will be a lot of interesting things for anyone to learn from this scene ?

    Here is the link to the files, in a ZIP format (~70MB) :
    https://db.tt/vCehYcbm

    Don't hesitate to use it, the objects are from me so there no problem, as well as for the textures.
    The only thing i didn't do is the tree, that is a free download from XFrog (AS06 if i remember correctly).


    Thanks for reading and looking forward to see what you guys (and gals, of course !) will be able to come up with !


    Cheers,
    Laurent aka Tartiflette.

    P.S. : i have attached the renders done for each scene, with the render times in the file names... (Core i7/4770K @ 4Ghz, nVidia GTX770-4GB @1137Mhz)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Tartiflette; 05-27-2014 at 08:00 AM.

  11. #26
    thanks for your generosity of posting the scene, i'll definitely check it out and play around with it.
    I've got an idea for it already, some modifications and such. Stuff takes me a while to do though.
    i'm definitely interesting in K-ray. i've seen some really neat stuff come out of that thing.

    you know, renderfarms are available and you can do a quick walk through using those things for cheap. So don't forget about that resource. It totally worth it to render 300 frame 20 hour renders on their systems, means you can get it back in a few days instead of well, 300 days. =)
    cheaper than buying 40 workstations.

  12. #27
    Mike, in Monsters Inc Tartiflette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vonpietro View Post
    thanks for your generosity of posting the scene, i'll definitely check it out and play around with it.
    I've got an idea for it already, some modifications and such. Stuff takes me a while to do though.
    i'm definitely interesting in K-ray. i've seen some really neat stuff come out of that thing.
    You're more than welcome, i'm always eager to see what can be improved and to learn new ways of doing things from others.

    Quote Originally Posted by vonpietro View Post
    you know, renderfarms are available and you can do a quick walk through using those things for cheap. So don't forget about that resource. It totally worth it to render 300 frame 20 hour renders on their systems, means you can get it back in a few days instead of well, 300 days. =)
    cheaper than buying 40 workstations.
    Oh yes, i know that, in fact GarageFarm is probably my "best friend" when it comes to render heavy projects, and i always say to friend who ask me that i prefer a renderfarm solution than to have lots of machine with me. That way i don't have to deal with hardware problems, upgrades and the like, i just concentrate on essential things for me.


    Cheers,
    Laurent aka Tartiflette.
    Last edited by Tartiflette; 05-28-2014 at 04:11 AM.

  13. #28
    Mike, in Monsters Inc Tartiflette's Avatar
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    Oh, by the way, here is the Kray version of this scene, i was shocked to see the final render time : 1h30' !!

    I'll be posting the scene on Kray forum as well, though, as i don't really understand how to avoid the noise in the blurry reflections, perhaps someone will be able to find an answer.
    For the fun i have made also a modo (701) version of the same scene that i'll post on The Foundry forums to see if someone can get something interesting out of it, i don't know modo enough (unfortunately, despite having a license of it since 401 release...) to come up with a good render with a reasonable rendertime.


    Cheers,
    Laurent aka Tartiflette.


    Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #29
    Registered User Janusz Biela's Avatar
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    Thanks Tartiflette! Will post this soon directly from Kray I will try also do it in Path Tracing - still in Kray this part of engine is really fast but I am curious because Path Tracing is pure Brute Force and doesn`t exist tricks which increase speed of render for this system GI. It can be done only by noise filters or some interpolations tricks (Corona Render)

  15. #30
    normally i am different ingo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tartiflette View Post
    ... For the fun i have made also a modo (701) version of the same scene that i'll post on The Foundry forums to see if someone can get something interesting out of it,...
    Cool, where have you posted the scene ? I'll give it a try with M701 ... oh, and i desperatly wait for the pics from Janusz
    ingo erik moltzen - virtual image maker --- www.im-graphics.com

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