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Thread: Adobe Premiere is not SpeedEDIT...

  1. #31
    Lynn Cress lcress's Avatar
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    One of the options of capital budgeting in the business world is abandonment of a project before you lose too much money. I would submit that NT has not abandoned SE as sometimes it may seem. The software is still on the NT website and it still shows up in my list of licensed software. It is still being sold and it is still being supported.

    I am hoping that they are instead using another capital budgeting option of postponing investing in future development in order to wait for favorable conditions. Sometimes I think they are just waiting on a shakeout in the market before investing precious resources in order to competitive. Until we hear otherwise, that's what I'm going with.

    As long as I can license SE on my next set of hardware, I'll be happy. It's still the fastest cutter I've ever used.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    It's really not completely crazy. Adding integrated paint and effects (including tracking, particle effects, .etc) to an NLE would not be useless; and viewed from the other end of the pipe, adding an NLE (including realtime non-destructive keyframing) to an animation system could be a god-send. But viewed either way, it's seriously non-trivial.
    Check out HitFilm2. SE has a SERIOUS competitor. And, it's not THAT expensive, in fact I think its cheaper than SE.

    It kind of looks like they read your post and went to work.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcress View Post
    I am hoping that they are instead using another capital budgeting option of postponing investing in future development in order to wait for favorable conditions. Sometimes I think they are just waiting on a shakeout in the market before investing precious resources in order to competitive. Until we hear otherwise, that's what I'm going with.
    I think its a little more human that that. I am a programmer myself and I know that you work on one thing for months getting it right, or almost, and then you have so many ideas that you are suddenly shooting off on another idea, and then another, and you end up forgetting how all the code and structure works in your first one, you have to go back and re-learn it all to upgrade it.

    Software writing is like a growing tree. There are so many directions to branch off in, that the new leaves are always green but the old ones turn brown and die off.

    So SE is probably just an Almost Perfect Brown Leaf.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeric_synergy View Post
    Aura/TV Paint is still in active developement?

    I always enjoyed using it, but the destructive nature of its editing turned me to The Other Dark Side (Adobe).
    Although I know this is totally off topic and at the risk of pushing it further, I just had to comment on this.

    I'm really sorry Jeric but I've got to disagree with you that TVPaint has a destructive nature. If you mean what I think you mean, TVPaint allows you to change your work ad infinitum at all levels, without committing anything until you're ready. From drawing basic shapes and animations to complex compositing and vfx with live and 3D elements, it allows you to experiment without restriction once you understand it's process.

    I just had to get that off my chest. Its been bugging me for a while now. Now I feel better, all is well in the world.

  5. #35
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    No worries Shabazzy: by 'destructive' I merely meant that Aura overwrote much of its data in the normal workflow of the process, in an unrecoverable way. In contrast to AE, which is a whole different approach and didn't do what Aura does, but is almost always wholly recoverable.

    Of course, one could always incrementally save, but that rapidly gets unmanageable.

    That is, unless at some point Aura got radically changed. WHich is likely.
    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
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    Film the cops. Always FILM THE COPS. Use this app.

  6. #36
    Aura, which is owned by NewTek, is an early version of Mirage and TV Paint. I never found anything destructive about it. I now use Mirage, TV Paint, HitFilm, Lightwave and Speed Edit for animation and video production. No need for me to go near the "Dark Side (Adobe)." NewTek isn't doing anything with Aura. TV Paint took back Mirage and is actively developing its own product. In fact, I'll be downloading and installing the latest update of their software this afternoon.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeric_synergy View Post
    No worries Shabazzy: by 'destructive' I merely meant that Aura overwrote much of its data in the normal workflow of the process, in an unrecoverable way. In contrast to AE, which is a whole different approach and didn't do what Aura does, but is almost always wholly recoverable.
    Ah. Aura? Yes, well you've got me on that one. I've never used it so you're better qualified to know than I.

    I'll shut up now.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by dweinkauf View Post
    In fact, I'll be downloading and installing the latest update of their software this afternoon.
    Nice. I'd be grateful if you could do me a MASSIVE favour.

    After you try TVP 10 out for a bit, I'd be forever grateful if you could give your insights on how the Screen Recorder feature fares feature-wise with other screen recorders; like Camtasia for example. The thing I'm really interested in is whether TVP 10's screen recorder allows you to zoom in and out on areas of the interface and gives pressed key information like some of the other screen recorders.

  9. #39
    Shabazzy,

    I haven't worked with screen recorders, but I don't think TV Paint has a screen recorder like the one in Camtasia. It does, instead, have a very simple to use Drawing Recorder that captures what you do in the drawing area. For what it does, it does very well. But, you only see what's on the drawing area, not on the full screen and without sound or the ability to zoom in or out during the recording. The forums reference a "Demo Recorder" as an extra but there doesn't seem to be any information on where to find it. This might be a reference to the Drawing Recorder or something in TV Paint's Creation Pack that costs extra. I've refused to look at that package because of what TV Paint did in creating it. Years ago, a group of us here helped develop the Canon plug in for Mirage. When TV Paint took Mirage back, they put the Canon Plug-in (that was offered free in Mirage) in their Creation Pack for - you guessed it - extra money. At that time, they also did a form of bait and switch with Mirage owners. TV Paint is a great piece of software, but the company's treatment of its customers is, at times, irritating. By the way, I just tried to download the current update, but it hung up. I'll try again later today or tomorrow. If I find a screen recorder in the new update, I'll try it out and let you know how it works.

  10. #40
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    Thanks man.

    I remember reading a lot of controversy regarding Bauhaus and TVPaint a few years back and thought that the real casualties of this would be the users. I'm not sure if that became true, but I know that when it was finally resolved there were a lot of unhappy customers during "The Troubles".

    Just to let you know, TVPaint 10.x includes a new screen recording feature that's in addition to the drawing recorder.

    http://static.tvpaint.com/products/comparison.pdf

    You'll find it on the "Software" pages (pages 4 and 5) under the "Custom Panel" list.

  11. #41
    Thanks for the link about the Screen Recorder. It got me doing some research and I found that v.10.5 does, in fact, have the screen recorder. Check out this link - you'll find the reference to Screen Recorder at the bottom of the page - http://www.tvpaint.com/WhatsNew.php. I only have v.10.0 on my computer and It appears this recorder is only in v.10.5 which is what I'm trying but so far have failed to download. When I get it downloaded and installed, this will be the first feature I'll look at. Thanks again for the information.

    Yes, the real casualties of the "the Mirage/TV Paint troubles" were the users. During those troubles, we all hoped Bauhaus and TV Paint would kiss and make up, but sadly that never happened. After it all went down, TV Paint gave us Mirage users a special price (still quite expensive) on TV Paint v.8.5 for a limited time only. Shortly after we bought it, they came out with v.9.0 which required more money for purchase. I can tell you we were outraged by "the troubles" and this new development. Then when v.10 came out, they only listed an upgrade price from v.9.0 to v.10 that left us v.8.5 users out in the cold for upgrades unless we made another trip to the bank. A short while after that happened, the head of TV Paint came to my campus to sell the software and since I brought Mirage to the campus during my time there and was now retired, I was called in as a consultant. In the sessions, I gave the software my highest rating but spelled out all the problems I just mentioned. He was surprised by what I said and on the spot changed TV Paint's marketing to allow 8.5 users to upgrade to 10 which I did. Sadly TV Paint didn't make the sale. But, as I said, I was only a consultant and had no hand in that final decision.

  12. #42
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    Yes, the users were definately caught in the cross fire. If Bauhaus were better business people and sold enough copies to pay the royalties none of this would have happened. And to TVPaint's credit I feel they did all the could to make the deal work, but when you travel all the way to Canada for a sit down and the other party's lawyered up and threatening to sue for $12,000,000 USD you if you try to end the agreement even though you've already defaulted on said agreement, then I have to say, I don't really blame TVPaint for retaliating and fighting fire with fire.

    I would.

    But it's the children I feel sorry for.

    But I have to say, I've always been a TVPaint customer and my own personal experience with TVPaint has always been very good, I very glad I didn't wasn't caught in The Troubles though.

  13. #43
    Your analysis of "the troubles" is probably correct. My problem with TV Paint is the way they handled those of us with copies of Mirage. If they had sold us a copies of TV Paint v.8.5 with a free upgrade to 9.0 or 9.0 itself (because of the short time frame between the two) and then let us upgrade to 10.0, I would have had no argument with them. Being a Mirage beta tester, I always had good relations with the people at TV Paint during the development period. Despite my critique, Fabrice and I got along fine when he visited my university. And, as I said, TV Paint software is awesome - no argument there. Well, time to try to download v.10.5. Stay tuned.

  14. #44
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shabazzy View Post
    Yes, the users were definately caught in the cross fire. If Bauhaus were better business people and sold enough copies to pay the royalties none of this would have happened. And to TVPaint's credit I feel they did all the could to make the deal work, but when you travel all the way to Canada for a sit down and the other party's lawyered up and threatening to sue for $12,000,000 USD you if you try to end the agreement even though you've already defaulted on said agreement, then I have to say, I don't really blame TVPaint for retaliating and fighting fire with fire.
    I have kept quiet throughout this discussion, despite a couple of prior minor mis-characterizations, because there is no point flogging a dead horse, and I certainly agree that the end users suffered most of all. That said, there are very few people anywhere, including present TVP staff, and certainly no-none here who is more conversant with the details than I am ... and I will state categorically that the characterization above is not only one-sided, it is at once wrong and quite incomplete. There was plenty of blame to go around, so let's just let sleeping dogs lie, shall we?
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  15. #45
    I just downloaded TV Paint v.10.5.7 and what passes for a screen recorder is there. It's named "Tutorial Recorder" and can be found in the <custom panels> window. What I can tell so far is that it records everything you do on the screen including drawing, selecting tools, etc.. The zoom in and out function seems to be limited to the drawing itself and not to the entire screen. I also don't see any way to add sound in real time. If I discover anything else about it, I'll let you know.

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