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Thread: Creating a corrective morph using Chronosculpt

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  1. #1
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    Creating a corrective morph using Chronosculpt

    -) For an arm bend of any kind. . . bring in the point cached arm bend. It will appear to be a blue clip in the timeline.

    -) Go to the frame where you wish to create your morph correction and scuplt that in. You'll get a yellow morph clip that appears above the blue clip.

    -) In your skeletal deform animation package, create a premade point cache clip of your character in a TPOSE, it only needs to be a single frame.

    -) Drag the TPOSE clip into the CS timeline (just by dragging the file into the viewport). It will be added to the end of the timeline next to the original cache clip.

    -) Drag the yellow morph edit clip you just made for the arm on top of blue TPOSE Clip. Now your morph is applied to the TPOSE instead of your animated mdd.

    -) Make sure the blue Timeline marker is directly overlapping the yellow dot of the morph clip. Create your perfect corrective endomorph from the CS endomorph menu or save out your morph target file as obj.
    Last edited by jasonwestmas; 09-26-2013 at 11:53 AM.
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  2. #2
    Melancholy&MysteryStreet hdace's Avatar
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    omg this sounds good. Wish I'd seen this earlier. Just made about 20 using trad methods and it's so bloody hit or miss because of morph rotation errors between t-pose and the pose that needs correcting. Yet another reason why I'm going to have to purchase this in the next couple of days. Thanks very much for this workflow.
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  3. #3
    Surely this isn't going to work with elbow bends etc or does bone information import into chronosculpt? I thought it just used point caches. It would require the bones matrices and weighting for each vertex in order to work out the inverse transforms to apply to the morph, so it can be applied before the bones and work in Layout.
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  4. #4
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    The idea I was describing above was to bring in cached animated poses (multiple frames) to be the foundation for sculpting in the necessary detailed deforms while in a specific pose. Then we can apply the morph (the yellow clip created after scultping) to your TPOSE afterwards, still inside of CS. The TPOSE would be a secondary blue cache clip you imported into your CSculpt scene. We can then export out a morph target or endomorph without the arm-bend or various other poses applied to the sculpt we just created. This is done by sliding the morph clip we created over the top of the blue TPOSE clip; move the time line hash-mark over the yellow morph clip dot and then export the morph from the menu.

    Then inside our original animation package. . . using expressions or set driven key-like setups we can create basic corrections from these morph files (which are not point cache files of course but just lwo and obj geometry).

    I'll create some examples when I give myself some time. Of course I'm sure some already know what I mean by now but maybe not in a CS/ LW context. Granted there are always limitations to this technique.
    Last edited by jasonwestmas; 11-02-2013 at 02:20 PM.
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  5. #5
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonwestmas View Post
    ... Then inside our original animation package. . . using expressions or set driven key-like setups we can create basic corrections from these morph files (which are not point cache files of course but just lwo and obj geometry).
    I'm not sure you're addressing Pooby's point: Displacing the vertices prior to bone deformation (by including the morph), you'll change the resultant bone deformation. That means you'll wind up with different outcome than you reached in CS (because in CS bone deform came first, a pointcache was made post-deform, and _then_ you painted the morph on top of it).
    John W.
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  6. #6
    Melancholy&MysteryStreet hdace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    I'm not sure you're addressing Pooby's point: Displacing the vertices prior to bone deformation (by including the morph), you'll change the resultant bone deformation. That means you'll wind up with different outcome than you reached in CS (because in CS bone deform came first, a pointcache was made post-deform, and _then_ you painted the morph on top of it).
    Why would you displace the vertices prior to bone deformation? The whole point is to displace them with the bone deformation. When the bone is not rotated, JointMorphPlus is set to base. When the bone is fully rotated, JointMorphPlus fully displaces the vertices. This is effectively after bone, not prior to bone deformation. So your initial statement doesn't seem right. Unless I'm missing something.

    Pooby's point doesn't make sense to me either because he himself asks, "does bone information import into chronosculpt?" All one needs to create the morph is the cached pose. Make the morph as jaswonwestmas has shown us, go back to the original animation without any cache, just using the usual fk or ik methods, find the relevant bone, write down its neutral rotation, then take note of the relevant posed rotation, then setup JointMorphPlus accordingly. It's a cinch.
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  7. #7
    A morph is just an offset. A vector for each point.
    If the limb has been bent by the bone, and the deformation cached out, then you offset the point, it will look a certain way,
    But if you save that as a morph and apply that offset before the bend (as you are forced to in LW), it will be totally wrong.
    In order to make a morph after the bone has been bent, but that will produce the same result when applied before the bone bend, their has to be a reverse calculation of the bone weighting, to mix the influence of their matrices and invert that influence, (also taking into consideration the rest pose) and multiplying the vector offset (morph) by the result, to make the morph.

    I deal with this kind of thing day in day out in ICE, in Softimage. You are welcome to try it out, but I guarantee it wont work as you hope. The bones and the morphs have a relationship to each other, to produce the final result and this can't be overlooked.

    It IS possible to apply morph after bones ( in ICE for example), but to make it work you still have to deal with rotating the morph's vectors by the bones and youd have to code it as LW has no way of dealing with this out of the box.
    watch these videos I made, if you are interested to see what I mean https://vimeo.com/67402407 https://vimeo.com/70124932
    Last edited by pooby; 11-05-2013 at 04:21 AM.
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  8. #8
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdace View Post
    Pooby's point doesn't make sense to me either because he himself asks, "does bone information import into chronosculpt?" All one needs to create the morph is the cached pose. Make the morph as jaswonwestmas has shown us, go back to the original animation without any cache, just using the usual fk or ik methods, find the relevant bone, write down its neutral rotation, then take note of the relevant posed rotation, then setup JointMorphPlus accordingly. It's a cinch.
    Guys, why would Lino state that CS cannot be used to make corrective morphs*, if it could (which is what you're implying)?

    *: at this time/with this version
    John W.
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  9. #9
    Melancholy&MysteryStreet hdace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    Guys, why would Lino state that CS cannot be used to make corrective morphs*, if it could (which is what you're implying)?

    *: at this time/with this version
    Because Lino's wrong.
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  10. #10
    Melancholy&MysteryStreet hdace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    Guys, why would Lino state that CS cannot be used to make corrective morphs*, if it could (which is what you're implying)?

    *: at this time/with this version
    I would also like to point out that he did not say that CS cannot be used to make corrective morphs. This is what he said, "Creating precise corrective morphs in LightWave at the moment is not possible. For now." He said LightWave. So what I said, that he's wrong, was wrong. Sorry Lino! It is true that precision is not what I'm managing to do. However, I do still disagree with the gist of jwiede's question.
    "There can be no true beauty without decay." --Latin proverb. Nothing digital is beautiful?
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  11. #11
    Almost newbie Cageman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    Guys, why would Lino state that CS cannot be used to make corrective morphs*, if it could (which is what you're implying)?

    *: at this time/with this version
    He didn't write CS in his post.... he wrote LightWave. Maybe he meant CS though, but I can only read what he wrote, not what he might have been thinking about.

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  12. #12
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    I'm not sure you're addressing Pooby's point: Displacing the vertices prior to bone deformation (by including the morph), you'll change the resultant bone deformation. That means you'll wind up with different outcome than you reached in CS (because in CS bone deform came first, a pointcache was made post-deform, and _then_ you painted the morph on top of it).
    not sure if you guys are understanding what I'm talking about, s'alright.

    Thanks for the videos Pooby.
    Last edited by jasonwestmas; 11-05-2013 at 09:47 AM.
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  13. #13
    Melancholy&MysteryStreet hdace's Avatar
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    The trick is to use JointMorphPlus. You trigger the corrective morphs (once created) with bone rotation. It works really well, but getting the morph right is the hard part, and it looks like this should work. Can't test right now, unfortunately, but looking forward to it sometime in a couple of weeks.
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  14. #14
    TD/Animator lino.grandi's Avatar
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    Creating precise corrective morphs in LightWave at the moment is not possible. For now.
    Lino Grandi
    3D Development, LightWave 3D Group/NewTek, Inc.

    https://www.lightwave3d.com/

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  15. #15
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdace View Post
    Why would you displace the vertices prior to bone deformation? The whole point is to displace them with the bone deformation. When the bone is not rotated, JointMorphPlus is set to base. When the bone is fully rotated, JointMorphPlus fully displaces the vertices. This is effectively after bone, not prior to bone deformation. So your initial statement doesn't seem right. Unless I'm missing something.
    I believe you are: Lightwave doesn't _evaluate_ bones and morphs simultaneously, and well, Pooby explains the rest better than I could in his second post above.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lino.grandi View Post
    Creating precise corrective morphs in LightWave at the moment is not possible. For now.
    Thanks Lino! Kinda figured that was the case, but a definitive answer clears things up nicely.
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2019.1.4 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),32GB RAM, NV 980ti

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