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Thread: Plant Factory now shipping-from e-onsoftware.

  1. #16
    Super Member JonW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Donīt want to have to buy Ipad for getting access to it.
    Agree!
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  2. #17
    Super Member XswampyX's Avatar
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    But.... it would be cheaper to buy an Ipad and use Treesketch than this software, and you get an Ipad.

  3. #18
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XswampyX View Post
    But.... it would be cheaper to buy an Ipad and use Treesketch than this software, and you get an Ipad.
    Isnīt treesketch a free software? and only for ipad , and it isnīt available for any other platform, so I donīt follow you here?

  4. #19
    Parttime Member mikala's Avatar
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    In other words have something you would actually use all the time and pay the less for than E-on's bloated prices.

  5. #20
    Motion Design Lead Iaian7's Avatar
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    Here I am, rudely resurrecting the thread...but there's currently a sale on SpeedTree Studio 7 ($595) and SpeedTree Architect 7 ($345) - https://store.speedtree.com

    Comparison chart including Cinema - http://www.speedtree.com/3d-animatio...comparison.php

    Pretty tempting, as I've always been deeply uncomfortable with E-on's business practices and software quality in OSX. So, anyone want to take the bate and discuss a little more? At this point, SpeedTree Studio 7 includes quad geometry, subdivision surfaces, and should integrate well enough with Lightwave (such as motion import, etc.).

    Are there any major failings I should be aware of? Alternatives? For the past few years I've been using TreeSketch, NGPlant, and TreesDesigner (though the latest version is unusable for me, v1.0 gave significantly higher quality), and am ready for something more powerful (especially with wind!).
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  6. #21
    Insane Carrot Cake Eater eagleeyed's Avatar
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    I recently was in a huge internal debate with myself about purchasing SpeedTree Studio, but in the end purchased TreesDesigner because of the significantly cheaper price and great being all within LightWave.
    Since I got the email, I have again had my interest perked.

    Can I ask why TreesDesigner is unusable for you? Just want to see your opinion, as I am not up to creating a large amount of trees yet, so want to see what downfalls I may be up for?

    I am also against E-ons business practices, and found the software quite unstable anyway, so ruled that off my list pretty quickly. Also was not that impressed with the results.

    Keep in mind though, Speedtree's license is pretty restrictive aswell though:

    From their forum:
    In plain English, these terms prohibit the sale or distribution of anything created with SpeedTree, whether based on our assets or on your own. If/when this policy changes, we’ll try to get the word out far and wide.
    http://www.speedtree.com/forum/showt...torial-request - Post 2

    This would not affect me as I am doing my own project, and won't find a need for giving assets to people, however this could affect a lot of others.

    Have a lot of thinking to do.
    Last edited by eagleeyed; 04-23-2014 at 09:31 PM. Reason: Looking at purchasing Studio, not Cinema
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  7. #22
    Motion Design Lead Iaian7's Avatar
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    Thanks Eagleeyed! I suspected SpeedTree was restricted in some way, but hadn't fully researched it yet. Still not as draconian as E-on has been in my embittered experience.

    I used TreesDesigner 1.0 many (many) years ago on various personal projects, and while it required quite a lot of manual input (modelling the target geometry, then finding a seed that gave usable results), the sub patch models were always pretty good (and the only option I knew of at the time that created continuous geometry). Very nice. I had to quit using it when Lightwave moved to universal binary, as the plugin was no longer supported. When Pawel Olas released 1.5 with support for the latest LW Mac version, I purchased it immediately! Unfortunately, the controls no longer work as before; some settings do nothing, and no matter what controls I adjust, the trunk is a complete mess (like rolls of fat everywhere). The previously-finicky controls seem completely out of control now, and the detail settings don't help at all (far too many rings around the trunk, which ends up twisted and contorted, and almost none in the branches, which are always straight and detail-less).

    I contacted Pawel Olas directly to ask what was going on, and while he's a great guy and responded quickly, ultimately solved nothing for me. He just said that using the new twigs setting was better for large numbers of branches...and...uh...not much else. Unfortunately in actual usage the trunks are still terrible, the twigs aren't the same level of detail (just two point polygon lines with minimal divisions), and a number of the settings are apparently disconnected (the final tab of settings seems largely superfluous with a whole lot of numbers that impact nothing). Again, this is just my experience in OSX; Windows versions might be fine, or maybe I've just never found the magical combination of settings that actually creates trees...though tellingly, it appears the examples on his website were all created in version 1.0, not 1.5...so I've given up trying to use it.

    NGplant is, in many ways, the complete opposite. It's fully procedural (no directing geometry or shape control at all), completely discontinuous (no branch connectivity), and while the controls are often problematic for very specific looks (trying to create an acacia, for example, is an exercise in frustration!), it is largely much more reliable. Also, it's free, so there's little excuse not to try it out! Due to the procedural rules-based design, of course, quickly generating random forest collections is quite fast, albeit still requiring manual input for the seed (interestingly, SpeedTree Cinema includes batch generation support...SpeedTree Studio does not). I've used NGplant on a number of productions in the past few years, but the amount and detail of control is lacking. For example, it's nearly impossible to fine tune how a branch intersects with the trunk (such as specific branching angles independent of global branch directions), and attempting to add certain branch variations actually requires creating separate branch families entirely (impossible to manage efficiently).

    Again, these are just my experiences and my opinions. Like I said, Pawel is a great guy, I've just not been able to make any use of the plugin since the update myself. NGplant has proven astoundingly good for the price, but lacks detail control and quality. Of course TreeSketch for iPad is shockingly powerful when it comes to directed growth, but the quality took a nose dive in version 3.0; trunks are no longer contiguous!

    So...that's why I'm interested in SpeedTree. It's expensive, and my hope is that it's worth it.
    John Einselen
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  8. #23
    Insane Carrot Cake Eater eagleeyed's Avatar
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    Thanks for the detailed reply.
    I am going to give TreesDesigner a decent play with over the next couple of days and see what I can create.
    I did not notice the 'roll of fat' symptom you described, however had noticed a couple of other minor issues (root and trunk intersection providing mixed results, texture stretching around the same area).
    I just did another quick test, can see what you mean with the 'roll of fat' now. Bummer, not going to unsee that. :P

    I have the feeling I will go ahead with SpeedTree, just due to the power of all the different variations.
    Especially as all the variations are quite heavily discounted as-well. The price was the only thing putting me off (that and the exchange rate). This has changed things.

    Things I learnt from the demo dealing directly with lightwave:
    - The fully exported model they bundle with the demo does not work with LightWave (or I could not get it going)
    - You can export your creations, however it deletes a large percentage of the polys in the demo. The results when I did this and changed a few settings in the exporter worked well with LightWave.

    - All textures do not work straight on export - I found whatever format I used I needed to fix stuff that was wrong or just plain missing (spec, bump/normal etc) From memory, .obj required the least tidy up.
    - Could not get animation/wind to work, however I feel this was the demo being overzealous with its limitations.

    The demo has the really annoying feature of occasionally not exporting leaves at all as per demo limit, on one case I had to export the model 8 times with no settings changes just to get a test model showing what I wanted in LightWave.
    Before I figured out it was the demo not exporting leaves randomly, I was driving myself mad wondering what I had done wrong.
    Last edited by eagleeyed; 04-23-2014 at 09:32 PM.
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  9. #24
    Super Member CaptainMarlowe's Avatar
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    I am a big fan of tree designer because its inside lightwave, it's inexpensive, and it allows you to sell the trees you created with it. Also for the automatic weight mapping, which is great for further fake wind animation, like showed in this thread :
    http://forums.newtek.com/showthread....d+trees+leaves

    About what you call the roll of fat, have you tried with the "thin" setting in the trunk thick type ? (by default, it's set to thick, and gives the roll of fat look).
    What I like with tree designer is the possibility to get a lot of various shapes in minutes, even if it is sometimes a bit unstable on Mac OS X.
    Before that, I used Arbaro, but tree designer is much simpler. I will give a look at ngplant. Speedtree is interesting, but too expensive for me. As for E-on, unfortunately, like many others, I had too bad and experience with their customer support to try again. I still have a Vue 9 studio version, mainly for converting and selling some of my stuff on Cornucopia3D, but that's all. The look of their spectral atmospheres is fantastic, and I had Ozone a long time ago. I tried Ozone 6 recently, but it worked with 11.6, but not with 11.6.x, at least on my two macs. I sent request to E-on customer support, but they never considered an answer would be welcome. Same on their forums... So I wouldn't even think about TPF, even if the price tag was more affordable.
    A bit OT, but If I were to opt for landscape generator, now, I would use Terragen creative+animation, since the old LW2TG lscript, which allows exporting cameras from lightwave to Terragen still works. The UI is a bit complicated, but not impossible to understand, and the renders are very good. Free TG3 edition allows for some types of height fields exporting directly in .lwo which is also interesting for compositing with shadow catcher, of simple for creating scenes directly in LW from a TG3 generated terrain.

  10. #25
    Agree with VidandCGI. What I found particularly useful in Vue Infinite (I have VueInfinite 5) was the possibility to export the entire Vue scene: objects, textures, sun light, camera position and perspective, into LW.
    Certain, or all, objects in the scene could then be partially re-rendered in LW, but using the Vue output (fast) as a background since the perspective matched. That was an easy way to avoid very long rendering time in LW since large sized outdoor-type scene with lots of volumetric and atmospherics are so complex to render. Something like that:
    http://www.renderosity.com/mod/galle...id=78233&np&np

  11. #26
    Plays with fire sadkkf's Avatar
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    Just wondering if anyone took advantage of the xfrog sale...full version for $200.
    So much water, so few sharks.

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  12. #27
    Super Member spherical's Avatar
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    Did back in December, during that sale. Got it and all the plants. Still downloading the libraries. Have yet to carve out time to work with the plant creator.
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  13. #28
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    So which is easiest to use/highest quality/cheapest?

  14. #29
    World's Tallest Dwarf safetyman's Avatar
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    If all I did was arch-viz and needed scenes with trees all the time, I might invest in Plant Factory, but $1500 is a lot since I rarely need realistic looking trees/plants. I can get away with using Blender's built-in Sapling tool for trees. It can produce some good results if you use your own textures. The trunk/branches can remain curves even after you commit to the settings (which are numerous). You can save your own presets when you get settings that you like and build future trees based on those settings.

    Blender also has a built-in ivy generator and particle grass and once you create some trees, rocks, etc., you can use the particle system to distribute everything.

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