View Poll Results: newtek courseware?

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Thread: newtek video tutorials for lw8

  1. #1

    newtek video tutorials for lw8

    ...okay...hold on!....i;m not trying to say that other video tutorial vendors arn't up to it or whatever but i'd really like to see some dvd's from newtek itself creating tutorials on lightwave 8 and books too...

    over at the "other" 3ds program i use [*ax or you could spell it ma*......] they have "courseware" in book and dvd form in addition to online "subsription" e-learning as well.

    newtek could do well to earn some extra cash with a courseware on lightwave 8.

    and we'd get some sort of "standard" way to learn lightwave.

    steve g
    stee+cat
    real name: steve gilbert
    http://www.cresshead.com/

    Q - How many polys?
    A - All of them!

  2. #2
    also note that *aya or may* also have courseware and you see that their perception as an app is pretty good for the new users as they can learn from the people who make the app rather than the hit n miss approach of some books and videos that are out for 3d programs such as lightwave, max, maya etc...

    there are some excellent ones done third party but maybe if newtek had their own line that was in addition to the reference manual and covered similar things to the discreet courseware
    newtek would have a great well informed userbase and also earn extra cash along the way.

    such topics could be

    foundation courseware in lightwave 8
    advanced courseware for lightwave 8
    game development courseware for lightwave 8
    lighting advanced courseware for lightwave 8
    special fx advanced courseware for lightwave 8
    character design advanced courseware for lightwave 8
    visualation product design advanced courseware for lightwave 8
    interior/exterior design and rendering advanced courseware for lightwave 8

    such tings are already out for other apps and their books are for each advanced courseware about 100 pages long with a cdrom with the content on it and costs about £30 each

    the advanced courseware for combustion is 360 pages with 32 lessons and a cdrom and costs about £75 for it.

    just examples for you...

    could be a good idea yes?
    Last edited by cresshead; 11-12-2003 at 08:41 AM.
    stee+cat
    real name: steve gilbert
    http://www.cresshead.com/

    Q - How many polys?
    A - All of them!

  3. #3
    Dam fine idea there cresshead, if people like Straton can delivery all those free little tuts over a period of a few weeks DVD's from the makers would be a real benfit to us users.

    And from NT point of view what a better way of keeping the cash flowing in than release a series of DVD's. I know Proton and the rest of the crowd will be very, very busy at present but once LW 8 has had it's release if you can get the like of Proton and Deuce on sets of DVD's showing the users the new features etc. And maybe a little download avalible set for the .1 updates would be really cool.

    Maybe an extras section could be little sets of interviews with other staff at Newtek (some of the coders and related people) who are all workling dam hard but the users never here about. Or interviews with people at the likes of Digital Domain on how they use Lightwave within there pipe line of how they have the interface set up, Area 51 on some more of their work or Joe Blogs studios in Timbuck 2 who are now using Lightwave 8 for x project.
    all of which I'm sure every one would find something of intrest on it.

    I mean how hard is it to put together tutorials for the talent Newtek have then have a walk with a DV cam and have a chat to a few people? Ok getting in the doors of DD may be very time limited but extreamly intresting, to the users of Lightwave and some great PR for them of course.
    Either Lead, Follow............. or get out of the Way!

  4. #4
    Re-member nixx's Avatar
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    Originally posted by badllarma

    I mean how hard is it to put together tutorials for the talent Newtek have then have a walk with a DV cam and have a chat to a few people? Ok getting in the doors of DD may be very time limited but extreamly intresting, to the users of Lightwave and some great PR for them of course.
    Very well put - remember, Alias|Wavefront (now just Alias) has been doing this very thing with May* or *aya showreels every year, and it's proven to be a very successful way of product promotion. Just think, there are still lots of people who think that LW has never been used in blockbuster VFX ! There are numerous reasons for that of course, but an accompanying showreel tape/DVD with impressive LW footage, tutorials, *and* interviews with the people who created it would go a really long way. At least that's what I think.

    nick

  5. #5

    Talking courseware

    Plus, each courseware DVD that Newtek could make would be an ad for the Video Toaster 3.... naturally they would use the VT 3 to make these.... right?

    Only thing wrong with the courseware idea is that you have to pay people to make them.... even if you add the reponsibility onto someone already working there, I think it would be expected that they get compensated for scripting, shooting and editing... and Newtek seems like they are fairly careful with how they are spending their money lately.
    please power off before disconnecting connecting connectors

  6. #6
    i think it's something they could do once lw8 is out for sale...
    give the marketing side of newtek a nudge...and like you say they can show off the video toaster and possibly tie into digital fusion as well...maybe parts could be developed with newtek and eyeon for some of it...

    of course this is all pie in the sky currently so we can but hope that something like this gets a look at.

    there's some great tutorials on newtek's site currently and you have a reference manual with lightwave it's just that there's no structured way of learning lightwave currently without looking at a 3rd party video deveopler...it could be that newtek could approach one of these and get them to make them under the guidence of newtek..sort of give their "seal of approval" to the courseware as guided by newtek.

    we'll see.


    if there's any current video producers out there..what's there thoughts on this idea?

    steve g
    stee+cat
    real name: steve gilbert
    http://www.cresshead.com/

    Q - How many polys?
    A - All of them!

  7. #7
    D a r t h W a v e r Nemoid's Avatar
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    As you can have read from Softimage's lower their price thread, I had quite the same idea, Cresshead. a thing I would add to your thoughts is that some dvd authors can be some great Lw users we can find even here as I said in the last post in the Softi thread itself.

    P.S. the more users wich vote this poll, the more possibility Nt takes this idea seriously, so c 'mon guys!!
    Nemoid | Illustrator | 3D artist
    .::Creating for you::.


    Co-founder of

    www.lwita.com italian/english Lw forum

  8. #8
    too true...i saw your observation and thought that a separate, defined thread would be the best place to see if this idea "has legs" or not.

    I've got several of the courseware books and cdrom's drom discreet...they actually use them as well to train resellers to demo
    max and combustion to prospective buyers as well.

    A range of books or pdf's plus example files would be a good start and then go on to tapes and dvd's, if newtek's resources are going to be stretched then maybe the "seal of approval" method could help lightwave users find good training without using the "lucky dip" method we currently have..also many books out there go over the basics that you get in the manual itself so i'd like to see an advanced courseware where you won't get the "this is beyond the scope of the book" type phrase crop up.

    ..i remember a "max 4 in depth" book actually says that the next bit is out of the depth of the book!....some in depth book that is huh?...more like the chap/gal who is writing it doesn't know how to do it....as in out of THEIR depth!

    later

    stee+cats
    stee+cat
    real name: steve gilbert
    http://www.cresshead.com/

    Q - How many polys?
    A - All of them!

  9. #9
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    I'd rather see Newtek focus on Software/Hardawre Product than try and make revenue from courseware at the expense of the existing courseware providers. That said, Lee Stranahan stuff as has the free contributions by many others such as Splinegod, etc.

    It's great that so many people give freely. I wouldn't be bothered by Newtek bundling some free tutorials, etc, but not as a commercial competitor.

    Paul

  10. #10
    Are we there yet? RomainR's Avatar
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    You already got such courseware available out there.

    Lee Stranahan has some great courseware available.
    www.learnlightwave.com

    Karen Tosoni has developed great courseware for Lightwave
    www.3dexchange.com

    Dan Ablan has great stuff at
    www.3dgarage.com

    Desktop Images carries a lot of great stuff too
    www.desktopimages.com

    Lostpencil animations has some great stuff
    www.lostpencil.com

    NewTek does a great job making and rounding up tutorials from all over the world.
    We should let NewTek concetrate on making the great softwares we love to use.

    The courseware is out there and it's all great. All you got to do is see who's teachin' suits you and your wallet the best.

    My apologies to all have great learning stuff and I have not named cause I don't know about you.

    Y'all have a great day.

    P.S. I think I have to cut down on the frosted flakes
    Have a Great Day

  11. #11
    i think your missing my point...

    think of it as a child learning english...

    anyone can teach english..if they can speak it and write it down.

    but for a proper education you need some sort structure so that everyone has the same chance to learn with a good proven structure method..that's why we have curriculms drawn up to teach in a proven way that will bring good results across the board.

    i teach 3d at a college in the u.k and we all have to follow a structure so that enables students to learn effectivly.
    i agree that there are good tutorial dvd's and video as you have listed and i have some of those tapes/dvd's myself but seeing that's there's so much choice available and not knowing which is the prefered way...well it can be a minfield or lucky dip when choosing such taining materials.

    alias and discreet make there own courseware available in book/dvd and e-learning formats.

    so that people using these resources should all have a similar background to learning the app...they also train their staff with these materials as well.

    i'm not suggesting that we should not buy/use other people's training materials but that it would be a good idea to have some newtek sourced courseware as a good basis to learn from in addition to third party books, dvds and e learning.


    i remember that we had a tutorial book with inspire 3d...but when i bought lw7 all we have is a reference manual with only the occasional small tutorial in a quick this is ho you use this in it.

    we do have a good selection of tutorials on newtek's website
    but you just sort of pick n mix what you want to learn from it..
    maybe that could be re structured a little so that it progresses the new users a little better than it does currently.

    of course lightwave initially is pretty simple to pick up but then after a while you hit a wall of "no knowledge" when you want to get deep into expressions, character rigs, lighting and the multitude of ways that gradients can be used as an example..

    at that point there really should be some advanced courseware to make the leap from a intermediate user to an advanced user
    of lightwave.

    the only other thing would be for newtek to give a rating system or reviews of the available training materials from 3rd party users that's available so the artists can have some sort of re assurance that spend the likes of $1000 on dvd's wont be wasted and won't fall into that "beyond the scope" of this training dvd that i see in some 3dsmax books and cdrom i have bought in the past...
    that's exactly WHY i bought the discreet advanced courseware!

    i'm just wishing for a little more choice.



    steve g
    Last edited by cresshead; 11-12-2003 at 05:43 PM.
    stee+cat
    real name: steve gilbert
    http://www.cresshead.com/

    Q - How many polys?
    A - All of them!

  12. #12
    How many times are we allowed to vote?... in that if it will help to actually make this happen, I will volunteer to vote over and over again until my clicking finger can click no more...

    Im not sure why anyone would not want newtek to do this... i wouldn't be at all surprised if newtek actually ended up making more money from the training materials than they do from the software they sell... and the more money that newteks brings in, the more they'll be able to spend on new incredible features will be in future updates of lightwave...

    So Please, For the sake of children,... make this so...
    "The only good warewolf is a frozen
    robot"

  13. #13
    Originally posted by RomainR
    You already got such courseware available out there.
    Karen Tosoni has developed great courseware for Lightwave
    www.3dexchange.com
    I took a look at this link. Then I took a look at the prices:
    http://www.3dexchange.com/3dcourseware/pricing.html

    You could buy SplineGod's, Dan Ablan's, all the desktop images dvds and Lost Pencil stuff and still have over $6000 extra left!!

    I would really be interested if someone actually bout all the modules and dropped the $10,000. Seems like all the other people are involved in the community more and/or providing free content. That's also something to consider when you vote with your dollars.

    For LW8, it would be really helpful if documentation was also upgraded. But for an extra $100 for disks and a manual, it might be cheaper to just buy Inside LW8 when it comes out and save an extra $50.

  14. #14
    Originally posted by hopicus
    and the more money that newteks brings in, the more they'll be able to spend on new incredible features will be in future updates of lightwave...

    So Please, For the sake of children,... make this so...
    and that is the MAJOR point! The money spent on the DVD would be going toward making the final product better, in future releases. To me the more I think about it the more of a no brainer it looks WHY don't they do it?

    Now if its down to cost how about giving Cresshead and myself a return air ticket to the US and we will come and do the filming, I'm sure you'd be up for mate?
    I'll bring a couple of DV cameras a tripod a laptop give us access to VT 3 for a day for editing a cheep DVD authoring package. We will take over Proton's and Deuce's offices for a day beat them with a soggy sock to get our tutorials done, then round to the R&D team have a chat to them grap a few what comming next off them with the threat of the sock treatment add a few models and scenes a quick chat to Chuck.
    ......back to the UK slap it all together send the DVD back to Newtek sell it for $30.00 a piece plus P&P copy copy copy sell sell sell job done

    Come guys look at what eyeon give us wth DFX a DVD with VTM's and content on, which although not quiet at Lee Stranahan level of hummour still got the point across of what that beasty can do.
    Either Lead, Follow............. or get out of the Way!

  15. #15
    Super Member SplineGod's Avatar
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    Originally posted by cresshead
    there really should be some advanced courseware to make the leap from a intermediate user to an advanced user
    of lightwave.

    the only other thing would be for newtek to give a rating system or reviews of the available training materials from 3rd party users that's available so the artists can have some sort of re assurance that spend the likes of $1000 on dvd's wont be wasted and won't fall into that "beyond the scope" of this training dvd that i see in some 3dsmax books and cdrom i have bought in the past...
    that's exactly WHY i bought the discreet advanced courseware!

    i'm just wishing for a little more choice.

    steve g
    The problem with this is whether or not Newtek has enough resources to properly do it. Do they have enough people there who have a very deep background in not only Lightwave but teaching as well.
    How would they even find the time to review and rate the courses that exist. Dans courses and CDs are probably around 30 hours or so. My Intro and Character Courses combined are over 90 hours. The Tour CDs I have add another 20 hours. You also have Carneras CDs, Tod Grimes CDs and so on. Just the stuff I have is well over 100 hours of material. Even if somone at Newtek had that kind of time (which I doubt) it would require someone with a great deal of experience with production, teaching and so forth as I pointed out to be able to even attempt it. It would take months. I also have support forums and so does Dan on top of the course materials. Since the support forums are technically part of the course a person would have to review that as well to do any kind of review some real justice. I dont think its possible and I personally dont feel that Newtek should be endorsing anyones wares over anyone elses. Its just not good business IMO. I think there are plenty of reviews online of the various offerings out there plus the free samples that each vendor has online for people to make pretty informed choices.

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