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Thread: Nevron Motion

  1. #46
    Super Member scratch33's Avatar
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    Hi,

    I still have a little doubt... has the xbox kinect the same specification of the windows kinect? same accuracy? same result in mocap of a body or more important, for face mocap?

    Thank you

    Francesco

  2. #47
    I don't have Nevron yet so i can't answer exactly but I have done mocap with my xbox Kinect and the motion was a little jittery but over all pretty smooth and I used it on a project with no complaints from the client.
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philbert View Post
    I don't have Nevron yet so i can't answer exactly but I have done mocap with my xbox Kinect and the motion was a little jittery but over all pretty smooth and I used it on a project with no complaints from the client.
    I know from what I've seen at Siggraph (the videos LW3DG is showing) the capture is good. Decent, maybe not great, but certainly good enough for much work that some would need. As for the jittery, the LW Plugin Nevron Motion has a smoothing option. You can select a few options of intensity. This helps a lot.

    Also, the new XBOX 1 Kinect has MUCH IMPROVED fidelity. 1080P 60FPS to begin with. From what I saw the software that the Kinect has built in (hopefully not just the xbox itself) sends out much improved data to work with. I'm not sure if the NM plugin works with the Xbox 1 Kinect. But if it's plug and play and the kinect sends NM better skeleton movement, then that will help a lot too.

    Think of NM as a retargeting app with "support" for Kinect. Thats almost exactly what they have coined it in the marketing. It's more the ability to retarget within LW instead of Motion Builder or other, with option to do Kinect MoCap.

    I have not tried it but the demos are promising, NM does Face recognition/mocap. It's pretty decent too. I think this is specific to NM not kinect software/camera. Cudos to the team for that add-on!

  4. #49
    Yes the xbox One Kinect has much higher resolution but as I understand it that one does not work with Windows, only the xbox One.
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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philbert View Post
    Yes the xbox One Kinect has much higher resolution but as I understand it that one does not work with Windows, only the xbox One.
    oh man that's terrible news. Is it a Microsoft annoucement or speculation? I wonder if there will be a hack of it possibly. Dang, that was going to be a good upgrade I thought.

  6. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by tcoursey View Post
    oh man that's terrible news. Is it a Microsoft annoucement or speculation? I wonder if there will be a hack of it possibly. Dang, that was going to be a good upgrade I thought.
    Microsoft confirmed you will have to get the new Kinect For Windows and the one for xbox One will not work for PCs. Maybe someone will make a cheap adapter for it.

    http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/0...t-work-on-pcs/
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  7. #52
    Super Member geo_n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scratch33 View Post
    Hi,

    I still have a little doubt... has the xbox kinect the same specification of the windows kinect? same accuracy? same result in mocap of a body or more important, for face mocap?

    Thank you

    Francesco
    xbox360 has lower spec than window kinect.
    For facial mocap I think its required to use windows kinect from what I heard from Brekel.

  8. #53
    Super Member geo_n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcoursey View Post
    Yes turning around is a problem. I saw in the demo Lino talking about the limitations, so the guest spun around, lino said...no, don't show the limitations! lol.

    I don't think it's a problem with the Kinect necessarily, but the software translation. I think there are other products that use ONE kinect that allow you to turn around and keep track. I believe Jimmy Rig does, Brickel Kinect and maybe others. Hopefully there will be more features and more robust software/backend with Nevron soon in an update.
    Would like to see some good examples of the output of this plugin from users before I bite the bullet. I'm interested because of the real time nature compared to Ipisoft which we have and used in real projects with 4 ps cams or dual kinects.
    I personally don't want to be an early adapter again after so many software purchases(Jimmyrig, etc) that went no where.

  9. #54
    I wouldn't expect much different then jimmyrig, Brekel ect....
    They are all using the kinect for windows sdk....and are limited by what that can do....

    They can modify the data....smoothing ect...but the actual skeletal tracking is Microsoft tech (20 bones, and 6 morph targets, and no finger tracking AFAIK)

    There are quite a few other libraries that can extend the functionality....but the native sdk only goes so far

    The good thing is Microsoft is constantly working on the SDK and will likely have increased capabilities when the new kinect is released

  10. #55
    It's just a toy now. But i expect it to grow better than what is out there now, ipI, Jimmyrig. I expect lifetime free upgrades for my 199$ I´m pretty sure this is rushed through on the account of Siggraph. Hence the lack of documentation. I believe an upgrade is near
    If they made support for PSeye i'm sure Newtek would snatch ipi customers. Ipi is great but takes time and effort in use.

  11. #56
    It will work with practically any motioncapture data set out there in BVH/FBX. The way they designed it is really nifty. As for other direct support for other mocap systems live... I can't comment.

    - - - Updated - - -

    You do understand however that this is fully live support, Ipi is not live mocap, you have to post process the captured video to make it work. 1 kinect, 2 kinects or PSEyes, its not real time.
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  12. #57
    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scratch33 View Post
    I still have a little doubt... has the xbox kinect the same specification of the windows kinect? same accuracy? same result in mocap of a body or more important, for face mocap?
    If you're asking about the difference between Kinect for XBox and Kinect for Windows, there are a few, and depending on your needs and interests, they can be significant.

    1. Only Kinect for Windows is officially supported by Microsoft for use with Windows. This means the official Microsoft Kinect SDK may drop support for Kinect for XBox at any time, and you will have to depend on third party drivers. This also means that the warranty does not cover any damage that may come from using Kinect for XBox with a PC--IMO, damage is unlikely to happen but users should still be aware of it. (That said, so far I've had one Kinect for XBox mysteriously die on me.)

    2. Kinect for Windows has more controls for image quality. For me, this is important in iPi Mocap Studio because I use both the depth and the RGB video stream, and I like to record under low light at night. With Kinect for XBox, the rgb video quality is too dark under this condition but with Kinect for Windows, everything is perfectly visible in the data because of the auto gain option. With Kinect for Windows, you can also manually override image quality controls, which is useful if you need to match the image quality between multiple Kinect devices.

    3. Kinect for Windows has Near Mode, which is useful for face capture and for scanning small 'tabletop' objects.

    Alternatively, you might look into Carmine 1.08 and 1.09. Carmine can record higher quality data, meaning it's a lot less noisy than Kinect data. The downside is that you may need to buy both versions if you need both wide and near mode recording. (I think 1.08 is the wide or full body version, and 1.09 is for near recording.) I'm told that the drivers are not as nice as Microsoft's drivers, though I'm not sure what that means exactly. (I don't own a Carmine device.) A single Carmine device costs about the same as Kinect for Windows unless, of course, you have a need for both models.

    I don't know if Carmine is compatible with Nevron though, only that it works with iPi Mocap Studio 2 and ReconstructMe.

    The new Kinect One doesn't work with Windows at all, so it shouldn't be a consideration right now. There will be a Windows version in the future but that may be year or more from now. FWIW, the engineers at iPi Soft sound skeptical that Kinect One will make much quality difference with their software compared to data captured using Kinect for Windows or Carmine--I'm told the higher resolution won't necessarily produce more accurate data, and it will certainly demand significantly higher bandwidth requirements. (iPi Mocap Studio uses two Kinects and three to four PS3 Move devices simultaneously, which is a lot of data if you're capturing depth, RGB video, and sound from the two Kinect devices and rotational data from each PS Move controller.) To clarify the resolution issue, when it comes to mocap data, framerate is more important than image resolution or compression.

    G.
    Last edited by Greenlaw; 07-26-2013 at 03:04 AM. Reason: Correction

  13. #58
    Registered User Kuzey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcoursey View Post

    I can't remember when the Studio came into excistence, but I believe 11+ is all you need. It may be 11.5+ If you have 11.5 you need to download 11.6 as it's the latest and FREE. Good luck.

    So the reverse image in Nevron Motion would be a bug then..I hope they fix it so the motion capture stuff isn't mirrored.

    Especially, if they are planing on making it a standalone app to take full advantage of all the possibilities...wink..wink NT

    btw...Team LWgroup, great work on all fronts!!

  14. #59
    Super Member scratch33's Avatar
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    Thank you greenlaw for the very detailed explanation. Very usefull.

    I have 2 xbox kinect with ipisoft and for my use, it works well. For much large or complex animation I prefer to use the playstation cams.

    Now it is important to me to know if I can use the xbox kinect to do face mocap or if it is necessary to have the near mode.

    someone tried?
    or can newtek staff confirm or not that we can do face mocap with a xbox kinect?

    Thank you

    Francesco

  15. #60
    Super Member scratch33's Avatar
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    Ok, Finally I have buyed it.

    But I have a little issue. I have installed the drivers with the khan tutorial (thanks).
    When I try to test it, nite2 works after 2 minutes waiting... the other one works with a frame rate of 1 image/minutes ... And in lightwave don't works, no picture in the kinect preview, no mocap.
    This is in windows 8 system.

    I have tryed in a windows 7 machine, Installing only nite2 and it works perfectly.

    Khan, do you use windows 8?


    p.s. : facial mocap works with xb360 kinect...

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