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Thread: CNET: Adobe kills Creative Suite, goes subscription-only

  1. #481
    Founding member raymondtrace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by COBRASoft View Post
    ^^ For companies this is easy calculation for budgets...
    It is an easier budget calculation for a one time purchase of a program that performs an expected task and that lasts forever.

  2. #482
    Often Banned Megalodon2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raymondtrace View Post
    It is an easier budget calculation for a one time purchase of a program that performs an expected task and that lasts forever.
    And it doesn't take rocket science to calculate the cost of an upgrade every 18 or 36 months.

  3. #483
    Super Member COBRASoft's Avatar
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    Well guys, I'm sorry, but our customers proof you wrong. Perhaps this is typical in Belgium or Europe, but many companies prefer to rent offices, software, services above buying them. It's a different point of view for the accountancy and budget wise. The financial result is paying, but the way the cost is booked in the general ledger is different. E.g. for government, renting is far better and easier to achieve (budget wise) than buying (mostly impossible because of strict budgets every year).

    So no, it's not rocket science, it's accountancy, government and taxes on revenues and the likes...

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by COBRASoft View Post
    Well guys, I'm sorry, but our customers proof you wrong. Perhaps this is typical in Belgium or Europe, but many companies prefer to rent offices, software, services above buying them. It's a different point of view for the accountancy and budget wise. The financial result is paying, but the way the cost is booked in the general ledger is different. E.g. for government, renting is far better and easier to achieve (budget wise) than buying (mostly impossible because of strict budgets every year).

    So no, it's not rocket science, it's accountancy, government and taxes on revenues and the likes...
    I disagree - sure, for places they have to spend all of their budget or risk getting a smaller budget the next year... but I've seen 10yr old computers still being used in government - I'm sure there's much older ones too. Would you rather your government rented them for 10ys at increased cost? Maybe if you're Apple or Dell.

    Know how long print houses took to switch from OS9 to OSX, simply because Quark express wasn't ported? *Years*. They conducted business with years-old software, without problems. That's years that Adobe would lose money, that's why they want to take away that option. What happens when again a new OS comes along that someone doesn't want? When Adobe switches, they won't have a choice.

  5. #485
    Super Member JonW's Avatar
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    My other half worked for the government & had very old computers & they were not rented.

    I can see the point of renting from an the accountants point of view. But for a small business & a lot of 1 person businesses. Work is usually feast or famine & purchasing is better done to reduce income. Ok, you can only depreciate but at least in a feast you have actually got cash to spend.

    Then there is the hobbyist, my guess is they would prefer to spend & own.

    In Australia people who buy things seem to be better off in the long run (maybe different in other countries). People who rent everything are generally living closer to the edge. Or over the edge!



    I remember a discussion a decade ago. The whole group of people I was talking to, all ignored their accountants advise & paid off their homes as quickly & well ahead of what was required. I did the same, also buying a car with cash. Whenever I discuss this today all the people who did this are not worrying about the economy & have far less stress. All the people renting are basically stuffed.
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  6. #486
    Often Banned Megalodon2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonW View Post
    I remember a discussion a decade ago. The whole group of people I was talking to, all ignored their accountants advise & paid off their homes as quickly & well ahead of what was required. I did the same, also buying a car with cash. Whenever I discuss this today all the people who did this are not worrying about the economy & have far less stress. All the people renting are basically stuffed.
    Yup, ALWAYS better to own than rent. Renting is good if you're starting out and don't have an established credit history or a good amount of cash in the savings. But as soon as you can, better to buy and have something than rent and have nothing. IMO it's the same with software as well as houses and cars. Even leasing a car or house you can still end up buying it. With this new Adobe system - rent ONLY - it's just like renting a house. Good for the short-term, but VERY bad in the long term. IMO of course.

  7. #487
    Super Member JonW's Avatar
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    The key to renting is the "saving"!

    Whatever you spend on rent, put the same amount towards capital. If you just spend the "saved" money on beer & restaurants in 10 years time you have nothing to show for the "saving".

    If on the other hand you used that saving for capital purchases or investment. In 10 years you will have the reservers to fall back on or to use for further purchases. By renting diligently you achieve a real saving!

    So in the case of CC put another $50 in a bank account every month!
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  8. #488
    Super Duper Member kopperdrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonW View Post
    I remember a discussion a decade ago. The whole group of people I was talking to, all ignored their accountants advise & paid off their homes as quickly & well ahead of what was required. I did the same, also buying a car with cash. Whenever I discuss this today all the people who did this are not worrying about the economy & have far less stress. All the people renting are basically stuffed.
    I think it's a generational mentality partially in play here. It *seems* in the UK the war baby generation treasure 'assets' much more strongly and spends more frugally, and are less likely to go and spend for the sake of it. These are my parents. There was less to buy when they were growing up, and there was less to spend on anything anyway. Then my generation - generation X - some of us remember the recessions of the 1970s, 1980s and then the early 1990s. We tend to hold on to our money tighter, depending on character and personal family situations when growing up - we have some of our war baby parents' 'save for a rainy day' mentality instilled in us as children.

    Then we come to the later generation - those that were born in the mid-80s onwards, who missed out on the early 90s recession and for whom credit was the norm, there was no major recession until this last one, and work was plentiful in any area (media studies anyone?). I think this generation is the one least prepared for the current situation, through no fault of their own. My friends who fall in to this category, only 10 years between us, racked up credit card bills, bought 'on the tab', paid as they went for cars, took huge mortgages out, and so on. Not all, obviously, but you could see it was more 'the norm' for them then it was for the older friends I have.

    I am a realist when it comes to renting things, or buying as you go - there are situations where it makes sense. But I absolutely detest the idea of renting anything if it means in the medium term I am worse off and the benefits don't add up - I would rather do without for a while if possible, and save for something than buy it on the never-never. It's a core-belief of mine - I can't change it, but perhaps my own ethos, generation and ideals are not important to the likes of Adobe. I know I am not unique though, and Adobe is pretty much screwing up when it comes to marketing to us. If there are enough people who don't mind renting on a month-by-month basis then it must make good business sense for Adobe. But the only people this really helps is Adobe - it keeps users locked in to their product upgrades, you will likely spend more this way than the other (for me it worked out worse as I never tended to buy the latest and greatest release - I did the maths, it worked out worse). It forces you to use or lose the access to the product. It forces you into yet another monthly outgoing over which you have little control.

    I would dearly love to hear Adobe's genuine reasons for doing this - whether it be anti-piracy, pure revenue generation or what, I would love to know the real reason they're doing it rather than the 'more convenient for our users' line we are hearing.
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  9. #489
    Founding member raymondtrace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kopperdrake View Post
    ...I would dearly love to hear Adobe's genuine reasons for doing this - whether it be anti-piracy, pure revenue generation or what, I would love to know the real reason they're doing it rather than the 'more convenient for our users' line we are hearing.
    Adobe has already stated that this move is for steady revenue. Someone posted links earlier in this discussion. The motives are spelled out clearly in the material presented to their investors/shareholders.

  10. #490
    Super Member COBRASoft's Avatar
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    To be clear, my company is paying off the office every month, so my company will 'own' it after many years . My collegue prefers to rent and will always rent. We live in the same country and have the same opportunities. In the end it is the decision of the person/company/government. Perhaps it has to do with personality and view of live, I don't know .

    Btw, all the cities working with our software have modern computers or the software won't even run on it. But in the niche market of our software, they earn those computers back in less than 3 months, software included!

  11. #491
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    I think Adobe should create features (if they don't already) that make people want to update frequently. Then perhaps more would get on-board the cloud stuff. But to force subscription. . .I dunno, seems to rigid. At least with other software companies you can choose whether or not you want to use the same version for 5+ years. I wouldn't recommend that but it should be an option I would think depending on what your needs are. Sometimes we don't need the latest and greatest.
    All that is powerful or long standing is first conceived in the imagination; supported by the hope of possibility and then made manifest in our commitment of our current physical reality.

  12. #492
    Often Banned Megalodon2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kopperdrake View Post
    I would dearly love to hear Adobe's genuine reasons for doing this - whether it be anti-piracy, pure revenue generation or what, I would love to know the real reason they're doing it rather than the 'more convenient for our users' line we are hearing.
    As raymondtrace said, a steady revenue stream was the reason given to shareholders. Of course we have no idea if there are other reasons not mentioned. We know they say it will be easier going CC only as opposed to trying to keep two somewhat separate areas going - subscription and perpetual licenses. Many surmise - and I agree - that Adobe will now be able to coast FAR more easily when they have a sufficient subscription audience. Previously they had to create decent features that would entice people to upgrade - if the features weren't good enough for some, they would not upgrade. Now... there is no serious incentive to add features since your userbase will essentially be held captive - there will be no choice to upgrade because you are only renting and paying each month. Where is the incentive? People already ON subscription won't have a choice because once they cease subscription, they cease to be able to open and edit their work. And the longer they are on subscription, the more difficult it will be to leave. New subscribers will subscribe "because it's Adobe and the industry standard."

    I am just hopeful that the backlash will ultimately force them to compromise and sell perpetual licenses again. I don't think that it will happen this year - perhaps not even next year since they are expecting to lose some revenue. It will take time - unless the backlash is so severe that it pushes their bottom line way below their expectations. As I said before, time will tell.

    One thing about renting that I did not mention before. Renting IS good in some things. For example if you are a small business and expect to grow, it makes no sense to buy when you will probably need expand into a larger space. I don't think this lends well to software, but to each his/her own. If it works for some, fine - but I still think it is a BAD precedent for our industry. The real issue here is CHOICE - essentially that's all we want - to be able to choose between subscription and perpetual licenses. (And no, not just CS6, but constantly improving versions.)

  13. #493
    Super Member JonW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by COBRASoft View Post
    To be clear, my company is paying off the office every month, so my company will 'own' it after many years . My collegue prefers to rent and will always rent. We live in the same country and have the same opportunities. In the end it is the decision of the person/company/government. Perhaps it has to do with personality and view of live, I don't know .

    Btw, all the cities working with our software have modern computers or the software won't even run on it. But in the niche market of our software, they earn those computers back in less than 3 months, software included!
    You have obviously looked at where you want to be in a decade. People putting in the effort now, & it is not at all easy, it never has & it will never be easy. But the ones who look at the longer time frame will be in a far better position.



    When we bought our property at the end of the 80ies, it had taken some convincing for the other half. Over half our income went to the mortgage & we paid it off at a quicker rate. It was really hard, we went without a lot, but what we have now is quality of life. Looking back I would do it the same without any hesitation.

    Everyone must start with their credit cards. When one buys something, what are you really paying for it in the long run? Seriously ask yourself just how much money you are throwing away! If you do not zero your credit card every month, stop buying stuff!

    Get on top of the banks & don't let them run your lives! You are only drip feeding them a lifetime steady stream of revenue at your expense. The banking system has done it even better than the tobacco industry at getting everyone addicted. Set 1, 5, 10 & 20 years goals so you are the one running the banks!

    It is easier to save a dollar than earn a dollar!
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  14. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by jasonwestmas View Post
    I think Adobe should create features (if they don't already) that make people want to update frequently.
    Omg I don't think I'm ready for such radical thinking!

  15. #495
    Registered User Rayek's Avatar
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    Well, for those who are still convinced Adobe went CC to prevent piracy, here's shattering that flawed argument:

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-575...ready-pirated/
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