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Thread: who says lightwave can't do terrains?

  1. #1
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    who says lightwave can't do terrains?

    Special thanx to William Vaughan for the toot on this...just messin round...seeing what can be done...any suggestions are welcome...
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  2. #2
    http://forums.newtek.com/showthread....l=1#post653137

    Check the attachment some posts down that one.

    Cheers

  3. #3
    Valiant NewTeKnight Matt's Avatar
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    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmahbee View Post
    Special thanx to William Vaughan for the toot on this...just messin round...seeing what can be done...any suggestions are welcome...
    well you can do terrains ..but it takes a lot more to get it right and set up, compared to dedicated landscape programs, world machine is a delicious program that you really want to add to your
    toolbox.

    You can of course use displacement and textured procedurals and get very interesting terrains, the problem lies in getting a true natural feel to it, and scaling for large landscape down to
    rock detail, the rock detailing often demands so high level of detail and that means high res objects or high divisions of subdiv patches, and even so, for animation and coming in close
    with the camera it will show that the detail isnīt infinite .as they are using procedural infinite terrains in vue.
    But both vue and Lightwave will be very slow for that stuff, and you would have to plan where the high res should occour.

    As for your sample images, you need to improve on texturing of the terrain, pick another cam resolution and Point of view/camera lens, and also improve on lighting.
    Hard to tell on the terrain shape since the texturing isnīt giving any good support here

    the first image for example has a type of procedural that simply doesnīt look real or as a cliff unfortunatly.
    But hang on and keep on tweaking..therés always thresholds and once and while you find yourself stepping up a level or two for every iteration of tweaks you do.

    I would suggest to tone down the strength and hight of the procedurals, also do now use just one grid to displace as terrain..try mixing several ones..that might allow you to have higher res on cliff peaks
    and then use a lower res for the ground area if there is small curved landscape or rund hills etc

    Also consider using modeled terrain too.
    Texturing is some of the hard part, best results generally come from good photo textures, but you often need high res seamless ones, with a soft head on light taken picture, and then a good uv mapping of it.
    procedurals takes a lot of time to get right, renders takes longer time, but it doesnīt affect memory space, and you can get infinite detail, but pattern from procedurals are difficult to match nature.

    Michael

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    Thanx for the advise...I'll see about trying your suggestions...I have world machine and Vue. I like them both it just takes a lot of time tweaking and sitting through tutorials but I think it's worth it...I wanted to do everything in LW so that if I add an object it will render correctly.

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    these are so awesome...I downloaded the files...loved everything about this...I couldn't get it to but I'll keep on trying...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusM View Post
    these are so awesome...I downloaded the files...loved everything about this...I couldn't get it to but I'll keep on trying...

  9. #9
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    absolutly nothing wrong with worldmachine and the results from that, thereīs one guy here that has training on that too, commercial though.

    The problem I always see in Lightwave landscape renders that arent straight down to the terrain that is, it is the fact that lighting and atmospheric is a huge part of a believable
    landscape mostly, unless camera focus doesnīt touch the sky so to speak.

    And here is where you have a couple of problems, you have to be good at comping in real life photos, and that will limit you to the lighting conditions from the photo or hdr imagemap.
    or you could try the skytracer which sucks due to rendertime with textured cloud and nothing looks good without that, also skytracer cant cast shadows from the clouds to the ground.

    the best sky otherwise would be to use dpont sunsky, but that has no cloud layers, have to set up hypervoxels or textured environment for that, but...you have a lack of atmospherics in sunsky too, no
    proper volumetric light that matches the true sun, you have to try and match it and it still wonīt be a proper earth volumetric falloff.

    Ozone doesnīt do it for me either for reasons I have talked about to much.

    ogo taiki maybe..

    But about tweaking time, expect to have more tweaking time in Lightwave for landscapes, than in vue...itīs really a breeze for landscaping in vue and set it up in notime.
    problem is rendertime with spectral 3 layers, spectral 1 is ok, but you would get such high times with volumetrics in lightwave too.

    but thatīs the atmospheric stuff, but landscapes without it us pretty dull.

    Michael

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    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Thereīs a couple of things in Lightwave that shouldnīt be to hard to implement (I think) that would make things a lot easier and to let you be more creative.

    1. infinite planes
    2. presets of the above mentioned, prefably when we get a thumb preset system implemented, water surface, and land surface.
    3. zero edges one go button, but with extra amount control, currently you have to set it to spherical, and a small value on x,z axis, or use alpha gradient, image maps or weight maps to level out the ground
    in the edges.
    4. altitude gradients..also working with procedurals.
    5. clipping of terrain according to height.
    6. volumetric sun_light

    Non of this is available in Lightwave today but is present in for example vue, apart for a whole buckload of other special designed tools for the whole nature theme.

    That was just a small portion of features to implement and steal, maybe some of the most important to start with, ..oh..I must mention a VPR ala viper/module style to let us work in all viewports and have
    panel module with custom sizes respecting cameras.

    Thatīs a start...then a matter of throw out skytracer and replace with something ogo taiki like, and then....well thatīs enough for now
    Edit...forgot...hmm number 7. better special designed terrain fractals.

    Michael

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    It's funny you say that cuz I was just thinking that someone should do a plug in for LW or something with those exact presets like Vue has preset worlds basically...you just click n go...

  12. #12
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmahbee View Post
    It's funny you say that cuz I was just thinking that someone should do a plug in for LW or something with those exact presets like Vue has preset worlds basically...you just click n go...
    presetīs should be a no brainer...or work with a third party 3d browser tool, but really should work with thumnails inside of the preset system, so you can get an idea of rocks and drag and drop, or pick
    premade vegetation types, doesnt matter if you have to build them yourself, rather not, but the most important thing would be to have the presets for better workflow and overview.

    infinite plane, altitude gradients, zero edges...doesnīt seem to hard either, the volumetric sun would be tougher or a full new volumetric atmosphere handler...Itīs all about what they focus
    on in development.

    Michael

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