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Thread: The Transform Tool in 11.5 has issues with selecting the handles......

  1. #1
    Super Member Snosrap's Avatar
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    The Transform Tool in 11.5 has issues with selecting the handles......

    This video says it all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sXcF...ature=youtu.be The handles cannot be picked on small objects zoomed in to poly selections.

  2. #2
    Yep, it's old LWM problem with full zoom (you know when you are zoomed full and cant' pick polygon or edge which is long/bigger than screen zoom) now visible even more.
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    Super Member Snosrap's Avatar
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    A much bigger problem here though is that this renders the tool absolutely worthless because of the fact that you have to select a portion of the widget to do anything at all. Wheras modo has what they call "hauling" ---off-handle click+drag action which controls one or two values of a tool directly in the viewport --- NewTek's Transform tool has no such capabilities - you need to explicitly use the widget.

  4. #4
    I am curious is using Shift A on the selected poly or points does anything to help the ability to select the widget. Or maybe you were doing that already to zoom in.

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    Super Member Snosrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    I am curious is using Shift A on the selected poly or points does anything to help the ability to select the widget. Or maybe you were doing that already to zoom in.
    I always Shift A.

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    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snosrap View Post
    A much bigger problem here though is that this renders the tool absolutely worthless because of the fact that you have to select a portion of the widget to do anything at all. Wheras modo has what they call "hauling" ---off-handle click+drag action which controls one or two values of a tool directly in the viewport --- NewTek's Transform tool has no such capabilities - you need to explicitly use the widget.
    Yep, "hauling" is really important part of gizmo functionality. It also gives a way of effectively controlling the adjustment precision on the fly, on top of addressing widget control regardless of visibility. C4D's gizmos have similar hauling functionality, and it adds a huge boost to overall gizmo usability. Forcing continuous action via the widget itself is too cumbersome, controlling precision is too difficult (esp. with rotation), and hit-accuracy issues really get in the way -- all seen with the LW Transform widget. Hopefully it can be added to the LW gizmo engine without too much delay or difficulty.
    John W.
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  8. #8
    I agree, I'd like that we can use "free mode" with translate gizmo like it's regular move tool i.e. click anywhere you want and move in all directions. So Fog it, fog all FRs so they know what they have to add/fix. Really there is no other way than telling them what you want. Fogbugz have "Feature Request" section .
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  9. #9
    Interesting that this is in this state from the looks of it.

    Thing is that this is not about a gizmo. It is about the fact that a Gizmo is only an interface to a transform system. It is just the handle.

    And this falls in as an example of my opinion about how not to develop LightWave. This come across as, you have got to be kidding right? You see? It would be like saying, "hey we can move a point now in Layout... woo hoo!"

    I mean how are we to take that seriously? You can't.

    If you are going to do something like a Gizmo in Modeler, it needs to be at the heart of a system that is in place. Even if it worked well. That is not what is needed in Modeler.

    What is needed is to remove all of the transform tools.

    Replace the tools with a system of transforming to which the Gizmo is the main handle of manipulation along with and tied into numeric input.

    The basics are:

    Translate
    Rotate
    Scale

    This system needs to also be tied in with universal modifiers:

    Soft Selection
    Definable Construction Planes
    Robust Snapping to all elements in any layer that includes centers midpoints as well as components
    Adjustable Pivot center (that also can use the same snapping for placement)

    Right there you can toss out pretty much all of the transform tools in LightWave

    Then toss out all of the rest of the tools and replace them with simple deform modifiers

    Taper
    Shear
    Lattice
    etc.

    And then you start to have a more modernized workflow.

    Never mind history stack and all of that.

    I just mean if you have a gizmo, it has to be a part of the above system or it is just another interesting tool that does not have the power a gizmo is suppose to have. A Gizmo is not supposed to be a tool really. It is actually just a handle and controller for a transform system.

    I am all for gradual increase in features and tools and so on. But a Gizmo, here, is really misunderstood, or to be fair, incorrectly implemented. This is not how I'd like to see LightWave developed. Hold the Gizmo off until you have something to put it to work controlling - a transform system. That is what a Gizmo is and does in my opinion.

  10. #10
    Super Member Snosrap's Avatar
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    I agreee 100% Richard! I really hope that none of these tools have been written exclusively unto themselves, but it kind of looks that way. Heck, even the various classic transform tools are just modifications of ONE tool. Example: Drag, Magnet, Drag Net, and Shear are all just various settings of move. Who cares how fast they can write new tools if they are discombobulated from one another. But I also understand the "transition" period LW is in so I think these "hacks" are inevitable until the underlying framework is complete. Because after all, who expects "render modes" in each tool.

  11. #11
    Yup Richard, hoping the gizmo being a tool specific thing is a temporary thing to a re-designed transform system.

  12. #12
    lol yeah I know.... preaching to the choir here. But I just wish NT would come along here and particularly in Modeler's case, state, "yeah we get it, this is what a transform system should be, we are working on that..." Something.

    But as Snosrap correctly points out, for years we have had these cool integrated transform tools all based on the same base tool. And for years we have been saying, consolidate.... at least, please! And Transform Plus proves you can do it. LWCAD proves you can do snapping and all kinds of things in Modeler for tools that are not implemented in Modeler, standard.

    Even if we did not have a new transform system, there is no excuse in my opinion not to at least consolidate these tools and make them all work on the same basis like the TRS tools work to create twist and Vortex as well as Dragnet etc.m plus all have the same capability as Transform Plus.

    I mean at the very least, take what is there and make it universally workable.

    But what do we get? A barely working transform tool.

    Sorry to rant. But it is time to do to LWCAD what they did to Worley - sorry man - but it is time to move on from the dependency on plugs in Modeler.

    In that "Modeler Tools Suck" thread Zardos, came along and said.... hey man people have been using these same tools for 20 years....

    Bless him. It is all about context. But is sadly true.

  13. #13
    Super Member Snosrap's Avatar
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    You are on a roll Richard!! Love it.

  14. #14
    "OH NO!", Joseph Joestar ncr100's Avatar
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  15. #15
    Valiant NewTeKnight Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    Yup Richard, hoping the gizmo being a tool specific thing is a temporary thing to a re-designed transform system.
    Short answer, yes it is.
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