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Thread: Seriously thinking of switching

  1. #31
    I am a Mac Fan But.

    To be realistic.

    Just look the threads in a Mac and Pc section inside LW forum, the Pc section only has few topics, Mac section has many thread.

    Few year ago Mac was strong than Windows XP o Vista, in comparison.
    These days Windows gains more ground than Mac.

    Only think, when Steve Jobs left Apple, Apple began to down, only when he come back to Apple, Apple started to grow again.

    The brain of Apple disappears, the history shows us that Apple not has long-term Future, with Steve Jobs offstage.

    This year I am waiting for news of Apple the new OS system, and the news of imac or mac pro.

    Although I am not a Windows fan, in our business, a computer is only a tool, if you find two tools than make the same work obviously you prefer the better tool.

  2. #32
    Registered User gravin's Avatar
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    I've switched back and forth a few times, both platforms have there advantages and disadvantages. For me PC is more flexible on the hardware side. It's easier to manage cost with upgrades and custom builds. Mac hardware feels nicer though, very much like an appliance, no need to worry about whats going on inside the box but keeping up with the constant changes in technology can get expensive. If it wasn't for Windows 7 I would probably say stick with Mac, Vista and even XP are pretty terrible compared to OSX but Win7 holds up pretty well usability wise. The big sacrifice for me moving to PC was the lack of powerful productivity/time management software, lots of great stuff available on OSX but web apps are still an option on PC.

  3. #33
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    Tony3D, let me just throw in my 2 cents worth. That's a pretty high spec system you are considering there and I've no doubt that for the first few months you'll absolutely love it. But, consider what your experience will be like 6-12 months down the line. No matter how brilliant your PC spec and how much memory you have on board, in my experience with Windows, inevitably things start to slow down with disk fragmentation, registry clogging up and those never-ending Windows Updates! Mac OS seems to do things completely differently with the result that I hardly ever shut down my Mac and 2+ years down the line, boot-up times, application launching times etc have always stayed constant. I've fond the only way to keep my other Windows PC in top performance is to do a reinstall of the OS every 6-12 months.
    Granted you have a LOT more flexibility with a PC in being able to pick and choose your hardware but if 80% of your time is spent doing day-to-day activities like email, web, documents etc. then its such a pleasure not having to wait ages as windows tries to load up an email client or IE. Also things like installing and removing apps are a breeze with a Mac compared to all those registry changes that goes on behind the scenes with a PC.

    This is not a discussion on whether PC or Mac OS is better for specific applications such as Lightwave and I hope I'm not coming across as a mac fan-boy but rather just wanted to share my experiences on what I have found the user experience is with Mac Vs PC.

  4. #34
    Super Member ben martin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony3d View Post
    Thanks everyone. One more question. My new machine is definitely going to be 16 core. Won't I need Windows Professional to access all 16 cores or no?
    You only need a 64bits windows version to have access to memory over 3.5Gb.

    For instance, if you buy 16Gb of ram to you new PC and install Windows 32Bits version, this OS-(32bits) won't be able to recognize/manage more than 3.5Gb of memory, so all the rest (till 16Gb) will be wasted (not used).

    "Windows 7 64 bits" will recognize the 16 cores CPU (using the correct motherboard socket for it) and all the memory you can trow at it.

    All is straight forward, no worries. vendors normally know all about these little guidelines when assembling a new PC.
    Last edited by ben martin; 05-07-2012 at 10:27 AM.

  5. #35
    Founding member raymondtrace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony3d View Post
    Also, very excited about all the plugins that will be coming my way. Thanks!
    That alone is reason to add Windows to your toolbox.

    3D on Mac has never been strong, especially as Apple liked to rock the boat with processors. It was a nuisance for 3D developers to keep up with Apple's transitions from 68k->PPC->Intel.

    Transitions are never as difficult as your existing platform vendor makes it out to be.

  6. #36
    Super Member ben martin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthworks View Post
    ... for the first few months you'll absolutely love it. But, consider what your experience will be like 6-12 months down the line. No matter how brilliant your PC spec and how much memory you have on board, in my experience with Windows, inevitably things start to slow down with disk fragmentation, registry clogging up and those never-ending Windows Updates! ... I've fond the only way to keep my other Windows PC in top performance is to do a reinstall of the OS every 6-12 months.
    My friend, you are absolutely outdated!
    Just get an HD defrag and a registry cleaner.

    If you need a professional maintenance software you can't go wrong with http://www.tune-up.com/

    If you prefer a completely free solution, that does the job very well, you can go for: http://www.piriform.com/CCLEANER and http://www.piriform.com/defraggler to defrag.

    I have My old Windows XP64 installer up to 3 years without any glitch, problem or slow performance.
    All updates done up to SP2, since MS decided not to release SP3 to XP64.
    I wonder why... no i don't is pretty obvious... to force the XP64 licence users to upgrade.
    I keep preferring XP64 over Windows 7 though. (go figure).

  7. #37
    Registered User Rayek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthworks View Post
    But, consider what your experience will be like 6-12 months down the line. No matter how brilliant your PC spec and how much memory you have on board, in my experience with Windows, inevitably things start to slow down with disk fragmentation, registry clogging up and those never-ending Windows Updates! Mac OS seems to do things completely differently with the result that I hardly ever shut down my Mac and 2+ years down the line, boot-up times, application launching times etc have always stayed constant. I've fond the only way to keep my other Windows PC in top performance is to do a reinstall of the OS every 6-12 months.
    Really, this is no longer the case. Even with old winxp a simple ccleaner used once in a while will clean up old temporary files. I have been running my current installation of Win7 for more than two years now, and keep it running all day: rock solid, no slowdowns at all, and as fast as day 1. And those updates keep the system protected, which is not something Apple can say (600.000 infected macs last month, and Apple was quite slow to react. It has been shown and proved time and again in the last couple of years that MacOsX's security is quite bad, to say the very least. Windows 7 and Linux are way ahead in that regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthworks View Post
    Granted you have a LOT more flexibility with a PC in being able to pick and choose your hardware but if 80% of your time is spent doing day-to-day activities like email, web, documents etc. then its such a pleasure not having to wait ages as windows tries to load up an email client or IE. Also things like installing and removing apps are a breeze with a Mac compared to all those registry changes that goes on behind the scenes with a PC.
    Again, this is something from the nineties, and not the current situation at all: in my work I deal with both macs and windows (not PC --> your mac is a PC as well, so is a Linux box), and the built-in browsers boot up just as fast on comparable systems. But one thing where Windows 7 outperforms MacOsX is multi-tasking and switching. Also, research has shown Mac users need to click much more to perform the same tasks.

    And unfortunately Apple seems to have turned its back on professional users these last couple of years. I used to be pro-Apple, but these days Apple mainly seems to be in the business of creating toys and consumer, not creator, devices. And it absolutely makes sense: why focus on a small niche market, when you can sell billions of iphones, pods, and ipads?

    A friend of mine bought a MacPro workstation 11 months ago, and he is feeling incredibly frustrated by Apple: he wants to make use of GPU rendering and update his video card, but there is only *one* option for him according to Apple: buy a Quadro that is completely overpriced and useless for Lightwave, and forget about GPU computing. No Tesla for Mac, according to Nvidia (he contacted both Apple and Nvidia). No modern video card updates for him. And he hates the new Lion os. He is now looking into linux, or even Windows (which he hates - can you imagine?). If had known what he knows now, he would have never bought a macPro, for professional 3d creation/design.

    And one thing I sorely miss on Macs and WinXP boxes: windows key + cursor keys allow you to control windows management. That has been the single most efficiency/workflow enhancing feature for me, especially on a multi-screen system, and I could not live without this. Windows management on WinXP and MacOsX is just outdated and *slow*.

    But I adhere to a very simple paradigm: whatever works best and offers me the most flexibility. At this moment that is Windows 7. A couple of years ago MacOsX was ahead - currently it is Windows 7 (by a slight margin). For 3d content creation I would stay away from buying a Mac in the current market, though. If you do want to purchase a MacPro Workstation, wait till the end of this year. Then we will know whether Apple is giving up on them (there is a rumour), or will update the MacPro line. I hope they do: otherwise the pro-market will leave Apple in droves.

    *edit* it is heartening to see that Adobe's CS6 mercury engine now runs on opencl on macOsX only, with Windows having to wait - which gives some hope! :-)
    Last edited by Rayek; 05-07-2012 at 01:55 PM.
    Win10 64 - i7 [email protected], p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb, Nvidia GTX 1080 8GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820. Screens: 2 x Samsung s27a850ds 2560x1440, HP 1920x1200 in portrait mode

  8. #38
    Registered User Tony3d's Avatar
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    I'm Getting sweaty palms!

  9. #39
    Banned OnlineRender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony3d View Post
    I'm Getting sweaty palms!


    take it from another perspective ... " you can buy a top end machine and another 2 to be used as a render farm " for the same price as top end Mac...

  10. #40
    Registered User Rayek's Avatar
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    For serious 3d and video work either Mac or Windows is just fine. Go with what you like most, but do some research first, and keep an open mind. Create a list of tasks/things you must be able to do (including software), and shop around. For example, I would never buy memory from Apple: much to expensive.
    Some of the fastest workstations can be bought at Boxx - but you pay through the nose.

    So, in a nutshell; do your homework, and make an informed decision.
    Win10 64 - i7 [email protected], p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb, Nvidia GTX 1080 8GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820. Screens: 2 x Samsung s27a850ds 2560x1440, HP 1920x1200 in portrait mode

  11. #41
    Super Duper Member kopperdrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthworks View Post
    But, consider what your experience will be like 6-12 months down the line. No matter how brilliant your PC spec and how much memory you have on board, in my experience with Windows, inevitably things start to slow down with disk fragmentation, registry clogging up and those never-ending Windows Updates! Mac OS seems to do things completely differently with the result that I hardly ever shut down my Mac and 2+ years down the line, boot-up times, application launching times etc have always stayed constant. I've fond the only way to keep my other Windows PC in top performance is to do a reinstall of the OS every 6-12 months.
    Installing your OS on an SSD drive helps, *a lot*. Personally I use a couple of SSDs in the PC, one for the OS, and another for large application sets (Adobe suite for example) and as the cache drive. All projects sit on an external RAID box and this works sweetly. I cleaned the disc up a week ago, but to be honest, I didn't notice the difference - it never felt sluggish in the first place! Again, not judging either OS, I use both, but Windows 7 was a good experience for me, going from OS X. It felt similar to using OS from the respect that it felt like one company designed the entire thing, unlike previous incarnations of Windows.
    - web: http://www.albino-igil.co.uk - 2D/3D Design Studio -
    - PC Spec: Intel i9-7940X @3.1GHz | 64Gb | 2 x GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb | Windows 10 Pro -

  12. #42
    Registered User Rayek's Avatar
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    I agree whole-heartedly: the major bottleneck these days is the HDD - whether on Mac, Windows or Linux, so an SSD is a 'must-have' to improve any OS's performance. I could *never* go back to a HDD system drive.

    Quote Originally Posted by kopperdrake View Post
    Installing your OS on an SSD drive helps, *a lot*. Personally I use a couple of SSDs in the PC, one for the OS, and another for large application sets (Adobe suite for example) and as the cache drive.
    Win10 64 - i7 [email protected], p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb, Nvidia GTX 1080 8GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820. Screens: 2 x Samsung s27a850ds 2560x1440, HP 1920x1200 in portrait mode

  13. #43
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    OK, I wasn't going to post back here since this is obviously a Windows fan club, BUT, the original poster did say he had no experience of Windows so its only fair he gets a balanced view of the good and the bad. I didn't argue that Windows is more cost effective and has a lot more hardware options than Mac but to post that Windows has fundamentally changed since previous incarnations is just plain misinformation. Dont believe me? read this: http://www.pcworld.com/article/15362...stas_twin.html

    Microsoft maybe have made Windows 7 more stable compared to other versions but at its core, the architecture is the same. In a way, Windows has to be a lot smarter as it has to cater for so many different combinations of components. To do this it uses a Hardware Abstraction Layer which 'abstracts' the hardware from the OS which in turn is bound to take a performance hit. In comparison Apple only have to deal with a known set of components and so can squeeze out a lot more performance from the given hardware. The bottom line is that Windows and Mac use different technologies for the OS and IMHO whatever way OSX seems to do it, there doesn't seem to be a need for registry cleaners, defraggers and anti-virus programs (at the minute!). For the poster that was so quick to point out the 600,000 Macs got infected last month, have you stopped to think why exactly this was so newsworthy and how many Windows machines do you think were infected last month? You would be pretty naive if you thought it was less than 600,000 even with all Microsofts updates! And before you all jump down my throat arguing that there are many more Windows machines out there and that's why there are more Virus's targeting windows - I totally agree- but it doesn't change the fact that you are less likely to get a virus on a Mac at this point in time compared to a Windows machine!

    No doubt this post is going to generate a lot of backlash but I'm only going by my own experience (yes, and I'm using Windows 7 NOT Windows XP or Vista). Maybe I've just been incredibly unlucky with my Windows 7 laptop , my Windows 7 desktop and my two Windows 7 virtual machines, and am the only one that has experienced these problems but its still a valid experience and has every right to be voiced.

    The solution is of course to have a dedicated PC for your graphics work and use your Mac for everything else - that way you get the best of both worlds!
    Last edited by stealthworks; 05-07-2012 at 05:26 PM.

  14. #44
    Registered User DigitalSorcery8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthworks View Post
    No doubt this post is going to generate a lot of backlash but I'm only going by my own experience (yes, and I'm using Windows 7 NOT Windows XP or Vista). Maybe I've just been incredibly unlucky with my Windows 7 laptop , my Windows 7 desktop and my two Windows 7 virtual machines, and am the only one that has experienced these problems but its still a valid experience and has every right to be voiced.
    But if I were to go by MY own experience - having built MANY Windows machines - I haven't experienced the problems that you have. I routinely defrag my harddrives and rarely have any crashes. And don't notice any slowdowns. I am currently using 8 machines - 7 are WinXP (5 WinXP64) and one Win7 machine. I've used these machines for years and I don't experience what you experience. In fact, I REALLY like WinXP64 over Windows7 - probably because Win7 is far more different in style than any recent incarnations of Windows. Never tried Vista.

    Another users experience...

  15. #45
    Registered User sami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony3d View Post
    I'm sick of Apple's silence about the Mac Pro refresh, and I'm considering moving over to Windows. Looked at HP workstations yesterday. I configured the following..

    Intel® Xeon® E5-2680 2.70 20MB 1600 8C
    Intel® Xeon® E5-2680 8C 2.70 20MB 1600 CPU-2 (Must be same speed as Processor 1.)
    HP Z820 Localization Kit
    HP Dual Processor Air Cooling Kit (Supported with Dual Processors only.)
    AMD FirePro V7900 2GB Graphics
    HP 16GB (8x2GB) DDR3-1600 2-CPU RAM
    HP 1000GB SATA 7200 1st HDD
    16X SuperMulti DVDRW SATA 1stODD
    HP Single Unit Packaging
    HP USB Standard Keyboard
    No Included Mouse
    HP 3/3/3 Warranty

    Cost after 27% discount $7,395.12 including Tax!

    That is one kick *** machine, and it's everything I can do to hold myself back. After WWDC I'm switching if Apple remains tight lipped! Plus a 3 year warranty, and it's shipping!

    My big question is how difficult is this switch going to be for me? I have never used Windows....ever. My plan is to basically use Windows just for Lightwave in the beginning. I have a one year old 27" iMac for everything else. As I get more comfortable, I'll slowly migrate everything I need over. I am just plain fed up with Apple! They can't pull their heads out of their #$% long enough to realize they have other products besides iPad, and iPhone. Looking for good constructive help here. Also, very excited about all the plugins that will be coming my way. Thanks!
    Anecdote which may or may not be useful. I've had problems with my HP Z800 specifically the raid controllers and overall - I'm not happy with it. I prefer my mac pro running win 7 x64 - it's a much more stable machine- I too went mac for FCP but came running back once Premiere got its act together... Hope you have better luck with HP than I did.

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