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Thread: I hate the Node Editor

  1. #1
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    I hate the Node Editor

    I'll be honest and accept that I am opening myself up to abuse but frankly - The node editor is fking rediculous. There I've said it!

    I appreciate its flexibility and power and thats great, it really is, but it reminds me both literally and metaphorically of the early synthesizers of the late 70's, early 80's. Plug this into that, turn this up, that down and those half up and you'll get a sound, as long as you have an engineering degree that is! Yes, I know its not quite the same is it. I know its great and reasonably simple to add a material or a gradient or any of the basics, but I could more or less do that in the standard materials editor. Like the musicians or the 70's and 80's I am an artist first and a technician second (or third or forth) I appreciate you have to put a bit of work in to get results and some of that is technical. It cant all be artistic and fun all the time. But surely we want these processes to be simple dont we? So we can get on with the actual job of creating stuff? If I were a pilot I would want the plane to take off when i pulled that lever, I wouldnt want to have to go and plug all the bits in first (neither would my passengers I would wager!). Am I over reacting a little? Well yes, probably! But for me at least, the future of cgi in this digital age is to refine the process of creation by making ball aching things less so! I dont mind tweaking, but I for one dont want to have to spend a day trying to reprogram nodes in order to get the correct settings.

    I am sure all this has been covered before, but I needed to rant. Now, there, see, I feel better.

    Going for a lay down,

    LA.

  2. #2
    Super Member Nangleator's Avatar
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    If it was easy, they wouldn't pay us for it.

    Wait. They hardly pay anything now. Something's wrong with that line of thought...

  3. #3
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    So... Dont use it if thats how you feel.

    The point of the node editor is that it allows you to BUILD things... Even if you COULD package all those possibilities into some "artist friendly" interface... it would have to have MILLIONS of options to account for all the possible variety.

    Would that be easier??

    But there's a LOT of artistic concepts that can be applied to nodal working, you've just gotta think in terms of an expanded artistic vocabulary.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGKwqL89LaA
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  4. #4
    Space Monkey 3DGFXStudios's Avatar
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    And you're from Oxford? Huh?

  5. #5
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    Didnt think it would take long lol.

    The node editor is far too complicated. There I said it again. Fine with the functions not fine with the method of achieving those functions. I want to use it. But for me its not intuitive past a certain point and down right complex after that. And I disagree, I am certain a more user friendly system could be designed for the most part.

  6. #6
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    You could say the same of any endeavour though... there are always more and more complex/difficult places to go... at some point everyone reaches the limits of either their capability or interest.

    But if a better system COULD be made... then why hasnt one?? Why have packages been falling over themselves left right and centre in recent years to add more and more node functionality??

    And again... how can you account for all the MILLIONS of possible constructs available in the node editor in some other interface.

    Honestly... bash away at the node editor all you like... but if you cant present a viable alternative that can do all the same stuff... then what else can one say but "if u dont like it, dont use it".
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  7. #7
    Banned OnlineRender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazyanimator View Post
    Didnt think it would take long lol.

    The node editor is far too complicated. T.
    I think as far as node editors go LW is pretty simplistic and powerful once you get into fusion and even blender atm its goes way more complex and fiddly ...but hey each to there own
    Last edited by OnlineRender; 05-04-2012 at 08:29 AM.

  8. #8
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    3DGFXStudios - love that, that was witty retort of the day so far!

    Nangleator- you are not wrong.

    I accept your points rebel hill, but I wonder if there isnt a silent majority that may feel the same way? There may not be of course and it may just be me.

    I have no idea how cgi software is developed, however it has always seemed to me that most software is developed by the types of people that are mathematically inclined, and the rest of us try to keep up as best we can. Its also been my experience that software has attempted to become more user friendly in order to evolve and gain in popularity. It has predominiantly done this by becoming easier to use, streamlining processes and automating them. Dont misunderstand me, I realise cg software is vast and complex in itself. I also agree that we dont need to dumb anything down. That is not what I am suggesting. I am simple saying I personally would like to use the power of the node editor in a simpler fashion. Or at least divide it up a bit.


    LA.

  9. #9
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    I've always found the node editor to be very intuitive and logical. I much prefer it to layers

    For me it's very much like using electric guitar and FX pedals so I suspect that's got some bearing on why I'm more comfortable with it.

  10. #10
    Michael Nicholson zapper1998's Avatar
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    I use the Old Surface editor.. Still

    And I use the Node Also..

    I do the Surface using thr Old Editor...

    Create a Duplicate object and then do the same surface using the Nodes..

    Thats how I have been learning the stuff, actually kinda fun.. sometimes I get a little carried away.. Node editor is pretty robust..


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  11. #11
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazyanimator View Post
    I also agree that we dont need to dumb anything down. That is not what I am suggesting. I am simple saying I personally would like to use the power of the node editor in a simpler fashion. Or at least divide it up a bit.


    LA.
    I know, and I get that... but what Im saying is that the node editors (as a whole) are designed to do one thing... bring the power of being able to code (aka build) your OWN solutions where none exist "pre-made". And the reason for this is that there are literally MILLIONS of different things that COULD potentially be built (coded).

    So how to give access to all these HUGE number of possible tools to end users?

    Either they learn how to code and build their own stuff... or you give them an interface that "simplifies" to "coding" process... and that's what node editors do... and to date, no-one has come up with a better way.

    So what's the other option?? Millions of different "pre-made" shaders or deformers, or tools to choose from?? That's gonna be a long wait for any software company to make, and even longer to read up on em all and select em from a menu.

    So what's the alternative??

    Node editors ARE NOT trying to jsut rpesent access in a way that computery, programmy, mathy types understand things... they're an attempt to allow non mathy users access to some of the power that they're missing out on.

    Is that still gonna be too complex for some folk... sure... but again... whats the alternative??

    Consider scratch by MIT... http://scratch.mit.edu/ a nice little interface to get 10 year olds into the basics of programming... guess what... its NODAL.

    If the fellas at MIT cant come up with a better way of getting ordinary folk access to complex programmatic concepts, what hope does anyone else have?

    And again... if u watch the YT vid I posted, u can see very plainly how even seemingly "mathy" concepts actually have very basic roots behind them that are very easy to understand for an artist.
    Last edited by RebelHill; 05-04-2012 at 09:05 AM.
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  12. #12
    Let's hate the world!

  13. #13
    Super Member Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    If you don't like the node editor, then don't use it. Regular layered texturing still works fine in Lightwave, doesn't it? I don't see the problem.
    Are my spline guides showing?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazyanimator View Post
    I am certain a more user friendly system could be designed for the most part.
    I can't imagine what can be easier to use than nodal editor..

    If you have ready material, somebody have to code it first. If it'll have more than 3 controls, you will be screaming it's too complex for your brain anyway.

  15. #15
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    Sorry I dont understand why would one need a million shaders?

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