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Thread: FXGuide : The Art of Rendering

  1. #31
    Almost newbie Cageman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geo_n View Post
    You should really try vray first because you can't compare objectively only using lw renderer and mentalray for maya which I know you said you haven't used vray. Where do you base your knowledge of vray?
    I have friends who have used vray on many occasions, and, as any other renderengine, it has issues in certain situations. As I said; it isn't magic. If that were true, there wouldn't be any bad looking VRay renders out there, but there are...

    We have the pricepoint to concider and also choose which host software to use it for... and, of course, we would need to devote quite some time into it, which, at this point just isn't going to happen; we are swamped with work, and we need to move through it fast. Sticking to what works, and also knowing that you aren't pushing the limits for those renders we work with (LW and Modo), I really don't see the reason for us to go for VRay. I really don't.

    Arnold, on the other hand, is quite an interresting engine because it is a very fast brute force MC-renderer. No photonmaps, no irradiance caching, no interpolation etc. It seems to be FPrime, but on Steroids.. very much a fire and forget kind of engine, unlike VRay that still needs optimizations and techniques that requiers deeper knowledge about the engine itself and how it works.

    This is why I think that LW and Modo fits the jobs we are doing like a hand in glove, and we are still not utilizing the full power of either engine. Both of them are unlimited regarding rendernodes and both of them works very well with our renderfarm management software of choice; Muster, and all to an extremely low cost. We also know these engines very well, and we can, in most cases, quickly move past a bug.

    In terms of LW, we have extremely good support from third party developers such as Lernie Ang, DB&W, Dan Dulberger, Eurisko Studios and of course, DPont.

    So, changing a renderengine isn't just the engine itself, there are MANY factors around it that needs to fit as well.

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  2. #32
    Registered User speismonqui's Avatar
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    that's probably why I often get the "lightwave? Isn't that a step back?, you know about max do you"?

    We all (here) know the capabilities of LW and it's powerfull renderer and maybe we don't care too much about BIASED articles like this one, but it hurts NT badly for the people outside this community which is A LOT.

    People are forgeting LW and articles like this are not helping.

    Lightwave? mmmm... it's not even mentioned in that Fx Guide "the art of rendering" article... you should check out Modo...
    Last edited by speismonqui; 04-12-2012 at 02:59 PM.
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  3. #33
    just wondering about Arnold,
    is it only available for Softimage and Messiah?
    i remember some time back it was a bit hard to find info on it...
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  4. #34
    Super Member Red_Oddity's Avatar
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    Last i heard they are working on a Maya translator, but most companies that rely on it (Digic for example) have written their own translators.
    And i believe (correct me if i'm wrong) that it uses RIB or a RIB like format to store the scene data.
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  5. #35
    President, the LightWave Group robpowers3d's Avatar
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    Hi Mike,
    certainly let's find a time where we can sit down for a chat. Thanks for your comments here in our forum and I look forward to meeting you at NAB and sharing all of the great projects that are being done using LightWave as the primary tool or as a key tool in a mixed pipeline including 'The Hunger Games', 'The Walking Dead', 'GRIM', 'CSI', 'Iron Sky', and many others.

    LightWave users are the most creative, flexible, and well rounded in the industry and we are extremely proud of the work that they are doing with our software around the world.





    Quote Originally Posted by mikeseymour View Post
    Great well if Rob Powers is at NAB and he can make some time to talk to me that would be great.

    If any of you - the real users, have GI images that we could possibly use in the story. Please email me [email protected] (assuming you own copyright). As you can see in the article we tried to include both company info and artist work.

    Thanks for the responses. I look forward to be illuminated as to LW's capabilities.

    Mike
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  6. #36
    The Real Homestar. Intuition's Avatar
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    [redacted by request of author]
    Last edited by Intuition; 04-12-2012 at 03:55 PM.
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  7. #37
    Red Mage Celshader's Avatar
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    Question Is that possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Intuition View Post
    Though fumeFX was just announced for Maya so those fluid fx passes may soon be vray passes as well.
    Is that possible? I work at a shop that has access to MAX VRay in addition to FumeFX, and the impression I got from my MAX co-workers was that FumeFX was a separate render engine from VRay. That is, you could not render FumeFX smoke in the same render pass as a VRay-surfaced car. You have to render them separately and composite them together later.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intuition View Post
    Just to stay positive about Lightwave I will say this.... Lightwave will cost you much much much much less then vray with a huge farm. This often makes Lightwave a very nice alternative to smaller freelance based projects the world around. Lightwave can get there too.
    Would you say this translates to television productions as well?

    As an aside, not that I have a need for it, but I would like to see Vray for LW as well.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertoortiz View Post
    Mike you are a class act.
    Yeah, he is...and scary smart to boot.

  10. #40
    The Real Homestar. Intuition's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celshader View Post
    Is that possible? I work at a shop that has access to MAX VRay in addition to FumeFX, and the impression I got from my MAX co-workers was that FumeFX was a separate render engine from VRay. That is, you could not render FumeFX smoke in the same render pass as a VRay-surfaced car. You have to render them separately and composite them together later.
    Doh, you are correct Jen. Where I crossed my wires was that you can make fumeFX contribute GI to a Vray or mental ray pass. The actual smoke render is fumeFX itself. But it would be a vray pass getting the GI instead of the usual mental ray render.

    Though.... this is an interesting note.

    During our development of Vray for maya with Chaosgroup they added the ability to render maya fluids natively.

    I did some beautiful vray renders of maya simulated smoke. If fumeFX can hand that smoke sim to maya somehow I wonder if Vray for maya can be made to render it?

    To be continued......
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  11. #41
    NewTek Social Media Chuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intuition View Post
    Just to stay positive about Lightwave I will say this.... Lightwave will cost you much much much much less then vray with a huge farm. This often makes Lightwave a very nice alternative to smaller freelance based projects the world around. Lightwave can get there too.
    LightWave has a lot more worth and potential than this comment would indicate, if I am understanding it correctly. I can agree that it's a great value for freelance-based projects, but it seems to me, given the context of the rest of your post, I am hearing you relegate it to that and nothing else; whereas to my observation LightWave is very clearly well fit for professional production work in a variety of pipelines and projects, including television and film. All three of the places you list in the mini-resume in your sig have used LightWave rendering to profitable and in many cases award-winning effect. It may have been a while since for DD, but not so for others.

    Renders from LightWave and several other renderers were shown to producers in a blind test for Terra Nova, and the LightWave renderings won the nod. A number of other recent production examples have already been cited, so that's enough for the point.

    If I took your meaning incorrectly, my apologies; but it really didn't seem like you were coming down with anything beyond that as positive for LightWave, and I see more than enough evidence to suggest there is more of a role in CG production for LightWave than the comment seems to indicate, both from a quality standpoint as well as the economies the package can offer.
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  12. #42
    obfuscated SDK hacker Lightwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intuition View Post
    We are a no-BS style business. We don't care about marketing, price, gimmicks, being fancy or software loyalty. We care about results quality AND quantity.
    Totally off topic so excuse me for jumping in... but I thought this part is quite funny considering the fuss about recent comments by your CEO.

    Cheers,
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  13. #43
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    Newtek is way too quiet for having just released LW11. What's the deal, it seems obvious to me why LW is getting overlooked.
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  14. #44
    The Real Homestar. Intuition's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    LightWave has a lot more worth and potential than this comment would indicate, ........EDIT

    I see more than enough evidence to suggest there is more of a role in CG production for LightWave than the comment seems to indicate, both from a quality standpoint as well as the economies the package can offer.
    Yeah Chuck, nothing against LW's renderer. It was my bread and butter for years. I also know the folks at Pixmondo and their work on Terra Nova is great.

    There is much more worth then what I was getting at with the free render nodes for certain. Still. I don't want to get into specifics because this is a LW site. There are numerous reasons I could get into when comparing LW's engine to mental ray, renderman or Vray where it has certain pros and cons. Many were covered in the Core private forum and some of those things were addressed which is great news, especially for my friends at Pixomondo.

    Didn't meant o come off negative at all. Just got long winded in my explanation and then edited in a positive note about LW to let people know I am not here to rip on LW at all. Just give perspective since I have used every piece of software and most render engines in production for years. It may seem bad here but what you don't see is when I am defending Lightwave as a useful weapon when people are asking me about it who have never used it.
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  15. #45
    The Real Homestar. Intuition's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwolf View Post
    Totally off topic so excuse me for jumping in... but I thought this part is quite funny considering the fuss about recent comments by your CEO.

    Cheers,
    Mike
    Haha, no doubt Mike.

    We have entire management staff who have nothing to do with the creative problem solving. Thankfully. Yes, if you were to judge by his comments then I could wholeheartedly agree.
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