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Thread: Third video mix?

  1. #1
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    Third video mix?

    Hi, We are going to do a live event in about a week with our TXC 850 Extreme and the client asks me if he can have three video mixes. One would be the recorded program, another for a center LED screen on the stage and another for the two screens on the sides of the stage.

    The only way to solve this I can imagine is to build a virtual set with that includes 2 video sources that fit the position of the 3 screens (but the people of the screens would have to make this 3 screens work as if there were all one. I don't know yet if this is possible for them). This would be the Aux Out.

    Is this possible or I have just gone mad?

    Thanks

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    You could do it if you are willing to give up your preview bus. I think that would be exceptionally difficult not to mess up, though.

    You'd use program out, aux out, and then set the multivew out to preview. You could hot punch all three using utility row delegated to Aux out.

    You would not have any transitions, just hot punches.
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  3. #3
    Registered User ZachSchuster's Avatar
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    Like Lee said, except you could use the Effects Row instead of preview. You could only hot punch the Effect and Aux outputs, but could do transitions on the program output. (Can someone verify if the multiviewer can be set to Effects Bus only? I can't verify at the moment.)

    If using the 850 CS, you would just need to make sure the utility delegate button is selected for Aux or Effects. Could get tricky, but not as risky as a preview hot punches, and maintains transitions for your "main" program feed.
    Zach Schuster
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  4. #4
    NewTek System Integrator PIZAZZ's Avatar
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    Simple.

    Use 2 or 3 switchers and 2 TDs.

    Honestly it does depend on the production value you want the end result to have. If you and your client is happy with a bunch of cuts only then, you could use the Aux out.

    As Zach said you could use the DVI out for the Multiviewer and set that to FX Bus out. Use a DVI to SDI convertor if you need to feed the display SDI. Keep in mind that there are certain instances when TriCaster processing gets heavy and the GUI and/or Multiviewer could drop frames to maintain 100% output from the Main and Aux outputs/recording.

    Seriously though, don't beat yourself up. Get another switcher and split up the work load.
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    Hi, thanks to all for the replies. The issue with getting another switcher is that the client's budget can't afford it (We're doing this job for a really cheap price). If I use the multiview DVI out, the director would have to watch at the cameras at the small windows on the interface. The other thing with getting another switcher is that I would have to enter the signal to that switcher and then to the TCX because I need those signals on the program too. I did some math (not very good, though) and I believe that if I build a virtual set with 3 screens on it (at 1920x1080) I would have a resolution of 840x480 for the main screen (7x4mts), and 480x360 for the others (4x3). I don't know if I'm thinking this virtual set in the correct way. And yes, it is possible to assign FX to the multiview (now I'm wondering if the client gets a 32 LCD for the interface so thw windows won't be so small...

  6. #6
    NewTek System Integrator PIZAZZ's Avatar
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    You will be disappointed with the direction you are going. Not saying it cannot be done. It just will not look good.

    What are you going to give the projectionist? HD-SDI? are they going to have scalers? Barco ScreenPros? IF they are going to have all that then better to give them a line cut with just your Program out and Aux out. 2 feeds. That I have done many many times. PGM feed to the outside 2 screens for IMAG and AUX out to feed the center screen with usually PowerPoint routed via iVGA.

    You do understand that with a Virtual Set, you cannot send a Virtual Input out the Aux output discretely. You would only be able to view the composited Virtual Input on the Program out (main outs). I doubt you would want a master recording where all you have is the Virtual Set composite.

    You can rent a basic video switcher for very little. That would still be the simplest direction. I bet the projection provider would have a Barco/Folsom ImagePro or ScreenPro already in the package.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZachSchuster View Post
    Like Lee said, except you could use the Effects Row instead of preview. You could only hot punch the Effect and Aux outputs, but could do transitions on the program output. (Can someone verify if the multiviewer can be set to Effects Bus only? I can't verify at the moment.)

    If using the 850 CS, you would just need to make sure the utility delegate button is selected for Aux or Effects. Could get tricky, but not as risky as a preview hot punches, and maintains transitions for your "main" program feed.
    I always forget about the FX bus. I like this. It's an extra keypress to delegate which bus you're switching, but keeps the program/preview intact. I bet the center screen hardly ever gets switched, so you could make this work pretty effectively, I'd think.

    I do agree with Jeff that in most cases, a second switcher is preferable and probably very economical, especially in the face of hitting a wrong button somewhere else. That said.. if all your content is on the tricaster, and you have the buses to work with, it seems pretty reasonable to me. We do center-screen-from-the-aux all the time.
    Last edited by Lee-AVP; 03-28-2012 at 11:02 AM.
    E. Lee Dickinson | President
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    Thanks Jeff and Lee. The specific case is that the client doesn't want to have the program feed on the screens, but a different selection of cameras. On the other screens they will be sending video from the DDR's. And they want to be able to switch wether one feed goes to the sides, the center, or both. I think I'm going to use the Multiview for the sides and Aux for the center. I don't know which equipment does the projectorist have. I will have to talk to him to see what requirements does he have. Usually, we give them composite video, but now is a bigger event so I think we're going to give them HD-SDI (and the DVI signal).

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    Hello again. Just to tell that this is one of those cases when you are dealing with someone woh doesn't understand anything about what he's talking about (less than me!). The projectorist has 2 PC's with Pinnacle cards that receive composite video... The event producer thought that it was possible to send 2 video feeds on the same cable and magically they would split on the other side... However, all the help you gave me will be useful in some other event for sure! Thanks a lot

  10. #10
    NewTek System Integrator PIZAZZ's Avatar
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    So are you doing Imag at all? I would suspect you are in for a Latency Nightmare of GIGANTIC proportion. Are all the screens LED based?? or is some projector and the middle LED?

    Good luck with this project. You have your work cut out for you.
    Jef Kethley
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    Now i'm getting in touch with the projectorist... I made clear that the only thing I can guarantee is that he will have Aux out in SD via composite video. Now I'm wondering if a DVI-Composite adapter would work for giving him the Multiview feed (but at this point, if it doesn't work I'm not worrying much and they will have to feed the side screens form some PC).

    I'm not in the best mood as you can see, but when things are (dis)organized as this is, I wish someone else would do the job. (and this is only the screens problem. I have exotic audio, camera and lens requirements to solve too!)

  12. #12
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    ... why? Why the PCs driving the projectors? Cut all that crap and take your feeds right to the projectors, unless there is some reason you're feeding a mulitscreen Watchout kind of thing.
    E. Lee Dickinson | President
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  13. #13
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    I'm not sure yet. I hope I'll talk to the projectorist today, but I imagine that he will be switching between our feed and another thing (as this is a church, they usually send titles with the prayers and that kind of stuff...)

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    Maybe they could send that stuff to you, instead of vice versa.

    Good luck with this project.

    Composite via Pinacle. Sheesh.
    E. Lee Dickinson | President
    Advanced Visual Production | sound.lighting.video.design
    www.avprva.com

    Tricaster 850, 460AE, and TC-1
    JVC GY-HM200u, Canon XLH1, Fieldcast and BMD Fiber

  15. #15
    Registered User ted's Avatar
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    Multishow, with all due respect, you got what you deserve. OK, mostly kidding, I'm not that mean.

    But when you let a customer talk you down on price, then let them make the production top notch, you pull your hair out without reward.
    And those are usually the clients that nit-pick any and all minor errors on your part trying to meet all their overwhelming needs.

    Don't get me wrong because I've been there and done that. I even have the Tee Shirt!
    But let this be a reminder for all of us. If you gotta do it cheap, put some limits on your client.

    All my best for a successful production.
    Ted R. Ruiz Sr.
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