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Thread: Why not list pricing? Video production/3d animation

  1. #16
    One idea in mind is to make preset commercials on the website. Such as a restaurant commercial. The text in the example can be displayed as. 'your text here'. The video will mostly be stock footage. But there will be parts of the video for their images to go in. These parts will be displayed as a black screen with words saying things like 'image of your tables here'. Or 'image of your kitchen here'.

    The stock footage will be mostly closups, so its more generic and less distinguishable towards one place.

    Selling ready made commercials on the internet can allow busineses to buy from us who are far away. We'll still do custom made commercials, but it will have to be locally.

    Quote Originally Posted by RebelHill View Post
    Btw... watched your reel, and its mostly good, with one glaring exception...

    The creature VFX stuff u have in that highschool... its TERRIBLE... modeling, animation, texturing, lighting, matchmoving... all these aspects are very poor indeed (sorry)... take em out, they drag the good stuff you do have down.
    There not that bad imo. Someone like you would probably see alot of things wrong though. I think they make the reel more exiting.
    Last edited by skywalker113; 12-29-2011 at 07:06 PM.

  2. #17
    borkalork BORKALORK! biliousfrog's Avatar
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    If you're looking to sell a ready-made product then, of course, you'll put a price up. You are no longer a service provider in the usual sense, you are a shop selling a product.

    If you are selling a service then you might offer your rates but each project will have a unique price based on the time involved. I've never seen a plumber, electrician, builder, carpenter or any other 'trades' person give a flat fee for specific jobs unless they are devoid of variables. Imagine a plumber offering to fix a leaking pipe for a flat fee then discovering that the pipe is under 3ft of concrete.

    Basically, you, as a service provider, have no idea of how much work is involved until the client provides all the details of the project. Hand-holding is all part of being a service provider, that is what differentiates between providing a service and providing a product.

  3. #18
    Banned OnlineRender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biliousfrog View Post
    If you're looking to sell a ready-made product then, of course, you'll put a price up. You are no longer a service provider in the usual sense, you are a shop selling a product.

    If you are selling a service then you might offer your rates but each project will have a unique price based on the time involved. I've never seen a plumber, electrician, builder, carpenter or any other 'trades' person give a flat fee for specific jobs unless they are devoid of variables. Imagine a plumber offering to fix a leaking pipe for a flat fee then discovering that the pipe is under 3ft of concrete.

    Basically, you, as a service provider, have no idea of how much work is involved until the client provides all the details of the project. Hand-holding is all part of being a service provider, that is what differentiates between providing a service and providing a product.
    good post! +1

  4. #19
    Unemployed Jester sandman300's Avatar
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    If a potential client says something like, "if you do this this one job for us at a ridiculous bargain basement price, we promise to send more work your way later...seriously," don't believe them--this never happens.
    I here this very often where I work. My boss doesn't like me to turn away potential customers so if they gripe enough, I'll knock 10% off the bill. But the down side is that accepting these kinds of jobs leads to a pile of work that never gets paid for. I must have a couple of thousand dollars worth of work, that I don't expect to see money for. Some of which has been in the shop since before I started working there 7 years ago.

    Where I work, I do video (transfer, editing, duplication). Mostly personal, but some corporate. The concept is the same for animation, I charge a flat rate for set tasks like duping DVDs; and hourly rates for more open ended tasks like editing. I have a price sheet to give people that has all our standard pricing on it, and when I take in a job I go over the pricing I expect, for pricing out video editing I go by the rule "for every hour of video expect 2 hours of editing" (one to do the work and the other to check it).

    Pricing out an animation job is done similarly. Like so many have said before, every job is different. Find out what they want to do and determine the most cost effective means of getting it done. Ask as many questions as you can. The more you know, the more accurate the estimate can be.
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  5. #20
    Has anyone mentioned that creative work for hire has confidentiality issues?

    Your clients probably won't want anyone knowing what they paid you.

    Also you need to negotiate upfront the right to use their video to promote yourself.

  6. #21
    Super Member nickdigital's Avatar
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    Also keep in mind a client may describe something a certain way at first but as you progress, you realize that they oversimplified their description of what they want. They may say something like "I just want one animated character." Sounds easy. But what does the design look like, do you have to deal with hair, dynamics, how complicated is the surfacing? How in-depth is the animation (talking head or full on Jim Carrey wacky-ness).
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  7. #22
    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hydroclops View Post
    Has anyone mentioned that creative work for hire has confidentiality issues?

    Your clients probably won't want anyone knowing what they paid you.

    Also you need to negotiate upfront the right to use their video to promote yourself.
    Not necessarily. Back when I was freelancing as an illustrator, at the very minimum I always made it clear in my written agreement that I reserved the right to use anything I created for personal promotional work. It was also made clear to the client than any personal assets I used to create work for them remained my property. For example, if the clients wanted to own my 3D models used to make an image for them, they had to pay extra for it; or if they wanted to own a physical painting I created that was used in their ad in addition to the printing rights, then they had to purchase the painting separately.

    The work I was doing back then was primarily for books and print ads, but the same can be applied to other media work if it's made clear up front. Everything is usually negotiable. The important thing is to get it all in writing.

    Of course it you let the client prepare a work-for-hire contract that gives them all rights to your work and you sign it without objecting to any terms or including any of your own terms, well that's your choice.

    G.

    Edit: Sorry I sort of went off writing that post and realized only after I was done that I was not actually contradicting what you wrote...in fact, I'm sort of agreeing. Nevermind.

  8. #23
    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    I should also mention that it's a little different in film and TV production. Since you're typically working at a clients location, using their equipment and software, and also working under whatever conditions they agreed to with their client, things can get a bit less negotiable in that situation.

    That said, you should still be able to negotiate the right to use the final work for self-promotion. If they don't allow this, then you should definitely negotiate higher pay rate as compensation. Otherwise what's the point? Many freelancers will tell you that your next job often depends on the most recent work on your demo reel.

    G.

  9. #24
    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    @Hydroclops,

    Oops. Sorry, I sort of went off writing that post and realized only after I was done that I was not really contradicting what you wrote, in fact, I was agreeing with you, so nevermind. You did specify 'work-for-hire' and the need to negotiate but for some reason that didn't register in my brain this early in the morning. Anyway, I guess the point I was trying to make in my clumsy 'haven't had any coffee yet this morning' manner is that nothing should be assumed, and most things are negotiable and, as you pointed out, should be negotiated.

    Okay, shutting up and drinking my coffee now.

    G.

  10. #25
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    I would let your portfolio do the talking not your list prices.

  11. #26
    What do I know? JBT27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonwestmas View Post
    I would let your portfolio do the talking not your list prices.
    If only the people who go for the lowest bidder took that advice ...

    It's a valid point though, irrespective of the state of the industry and the economy ... be as good as you can be, and show the stuff off. And that point about being supportive and helpful to clients ... doesn't always catch the work, but we find mostly it does; treat people well and don't rip them off.

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  12. #27
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    Yeah the supportive and helpful part goes a long long way regardless of what you charge.

  13. #28
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    It's kind of what I tell my yellow page sales person every year. They try to get me to buy a larger ad, and I tell them all that does is gets me the first phone call. But most customers are going to call all the small ads too, for price comparisons. So I just keep the same ad every year. What gets me the job is my work samples and not just the pricing.
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  14. #29
    Lightwave Muddler... wrightyp100's Avatar
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    Yeah, I wouldnt put prices on. To re-enforce what everyone has said. Each job is different.

    And I would agree about taking out the match move high school stuff. Your reels a bit long anyway... It does distract from your really good stuff.
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